Cardamine hirsuta

Greetings,
We all know the adage "correlation is not causation" - but human nature makes it very hard to apply this concept consistently and we frequently fall prey to exactly this logical error. The ability of an organism to "come back with a vengeance" after disturbance is what makes a plant a problemmatic weed in the first place. As one of the most commonly-used herbicides on the planet, surely someone has run the 10x10 experiment Nhu suggests. If roundup were such a potent weed stimulant, how could we not have documentation of this effect?
Concerning Calfornia law and organic farming, the 5 year wait for organic land is not driven by concerns about Roundup specifically but about all the other persistent herbicides common in modern farming. Since we cannot know for certain what herbicides, insecticides or other chemicals have been used on a piece of land, the law includes a blanket 5-year wait (even though Roundup alone does not persist for anywhere close to 5 years). Further, 5 years is not actually long enough to insure farmland if free of all previously used chemicals. But there has to be some reasonable standard that allows people to gain organic certification (especially since nearly all the ag land in California was conventionally farmed for decades before the rise of organic agriculture).
It is also quite clear from this thread that "GMO" is a topic loaded with confusion and influenced by what can only be labeled superstition: Why else would a gardender speculate that GMO contamination was responsible for weeds being weedy?
There are indeed serious questions raised by modern farming monoculture, the overuse of pesticides/herbicides, and environmental impacts of GMO crops. At the same time however, the organic farming industry also has a monetary interest in convincing consumers to pay a premium for their products. Because few of the the actors here can be trusted, it's important to demand evidence concerning claims from either side.
-|<ipp

From: silkie@frontiernet.net
To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2013 18:32:26 -0700
Subject: Re: [pbs] Cardamine hirsuta

A few years ago I caved on my position of having an all organic garden and
used some Roundup on a grass that is rhizomatous and endemic to this area.
The Agricultural extension could not identify it, but it is broadly known.
Many go to raised beds as a last resort. Anyway, the Roundup appeared to
kill the stand of the grass in a corner of my vegetable garden, but the next
year it came back with a vengeance as if I had spoon fed it a tasty meal.

Lepidium latifolium commonly known as Tall Whitetop or just Whitetop
http://blm.gov/ca/st/… ,
http://unce.unr.edu/programs/sites/…
is another plant that seems to ignore Roundup. The flowers are similar in
appearance to Baby's Breath so vendors often come to this area to collect
the flowers for free and then sell them as Baby's Breath thus spreading the
seeds. It is starting to invade our property and I am at a loss as to how
to deal with it. In the past we have kept it mowed hoping to stunt its
growth. This year I'm considering using a weed burner on it. The Rancher
across the road keeps it controlled by grazing, but it grows in the
right-of-way along the road and the seeds blow onto our property. Grazing
controls it in our fields, but I do prefer to have flowers, lawn and
vegetables on some of the land!

Point- if Roundup left no residue, there would not be the requirement (law)
to wait 5 years after the last application to be considered organic

Colleen
NE Calif

-----Original Message-----
From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org]
On Behalf Of Alberto Castillo
Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 5:31 PM
To: Pacific Bulb Society
Subject: Re: [pbs] Cardamine hirsuta

Jadeboy, this is what we have been discussing in this thread. I assume
everybody would know but clearly not. Genetically engineered soybean and
other crops are being widely sown in South America, Africa, and elsewhere.
This soybean, etc., has been genetically modified to become resistant to
Roundup; this will kill most of the existing weeds AND native vegetation of
all sorts but not the soybean. This way competition from other vegetation is
eliminated.

Christian, it seems Roundup has a sort of hormonal effect on Cardamine
hirsuta boosting is germination to abnormally succesful rates. Otherwise
there is no evidence that an effect on Cardamine was among the goals when
projecting the product. As a matter of fact, germination improvement of no
plant was ever mentioned among the product's "benefits". However there is
not the slightest doubt that this actually happens from postings in this
same thread.

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