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Today's Topics:

1. Re: Pacific BX 98 (Dell Sherk)
2. Lycoris squamigera in bloom here in Maryland (Jim McKenney)
3. Re: Lycoris squamigera in bloom here in Maryland (J.E. Shields)
4. Re: Lycoris squamigera in bloom here in Maryland (Lee Poulsen)
5. Re: Lycoris squamigera in bloom here in Maryland (Jim McKenney)
6. assorted (Arnold Trachtenberg)
7. More Lycoris (James Waddick)
8. Re: Alstroemeria query (Rodger Whitlock)
9. Speciation. Was: Lycoris squamigera in bloom here in Maryland
(J.E. Shields)
10. to:///John/ Ingram (Carol Jensen)
11. Crocus corsicus (Dr Paul Chapman)
12. Cryptostephanus haemanthoides (Alberto Grossi)
13. Re: [IBSMEMBERS] Cryptostephanus haemanthoides
(johngrimshaw@tiscali.co.uk)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2005 07:38:29 -0400
From: "Dell Sherk" <dells@voicenet.com>
Subject: Re: [pbs] Pacific BX 98
To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <20050806113825.C6B3C4C006@lists.ibiblio.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Dear Ronalee,

Everything on that BX was claimed about mid-week. If I have anything left,
I
will send it.

Sorry,
Dell

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2005 10:27:31 -0400
From: "Jim McKenney" <jimmckenney@starpower.net>
Subject: [pbs] Lycoris squamigera in bloom here in Maryland
To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <48ph3g$23gaja@smtp05.mrf.mail.rcn.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Lycoris squamigera is starting to bloom now here in zone 7 Maryland.

I think I've asked this question in the past, but I'll try again: for
purposes of discussion, let's go with the hypothesis that the plant we
know
as Lycoris squamigera is of hybrid origin.

Can anyone tell us what the correct name for this plant would be according
to the rules? I don't think we can use Lycoris squamigera, because it was
published as rank species. Does a combination exist for plants of the
parentage assumed for what we call Lycoris squamigera?

Jim McKenney
Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where I've seen old
plantings
of this plant which produce hundreds, maybe thousands, of blooms yearly.

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Sat, 06 Aug 2005 09:48:16 -0500
From: "J.E. Shields" <jshields@indy.net>
Subject: Re: [pbs] Lycoris squamigera in bloom here in Maryland
To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20050806093928.01f3bc80@pop.indy.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

Hi Jim McK, and all,

Get a copy of the Chinese paper (in English) on Lycoris species from Jim
Waddick, if Jim W. still has any left. Since the hybrid origin is not all
that clear (as far as I can recall -- wait for someone to do DNA) I
suspect
that the only properly published name is squamigera.

In any case, it seems that new species arise by hybridization in
nature. Since L. squamigera is reproductively isolated from other Lycoris
species including, I presume, both its original parents, it is probably a
good species anyway. Hybrid origin per se would not disqualify it;
reticulate evolution in action. I think there are parthenogenic
(apomictic) species of Zephyranthes (rain lilies) that are considered good
species botanically.

I don't have bloom size squamigera planted here, but I have one scape each
showing on LL. sprengeri, chinensis, and longituba. More should be
popping
up any day now.

Regards,
Jim Shields
in central Indiana (USA)

At 10:27 AM 8/6/2005 -0400, Jim McK. wrote:

*************************************************
Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd.
P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/
Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA
Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2005 09:33:20 -0700
From: Lee Poulsen <wpoulsen@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: [pbs] Lycoris squamigera in bloom here in Maryland
To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <3FD2CE5E-45CE-431C-AA68-B33AD498863A@pacbell.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; delsp=yes; format=flowed

I have L. sprengeri and L. radiata pumila ? ?haywardii both in bloom
now. The second one looks somewhat similar to the first one except
that the petals are somewhat thinner, the pink is redder and there is
only a faint hint of blue on the tips of the petals. Jim W., could it
be another L. sprengeri that was mislabelled?

--Lee Poulsen
Pasadena, California, USA, USDA Zone 10a

On Aug 6, 2005, at 7:48 AM, J.E. Shields wrote:

------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2005 12:36:51 -0400
From: "Jim McKenney" <jimmckenney@starpower.net>
Subject: Re: [pbs] Lycoris squamigera in bloom here in Maryland
To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <47qfdc$208jn7@smtp04.mrf.mail.rcn.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Jim Shields wrote: "Since L. squamigera is reproductively isolated from
other Lycoris species including, I presume, both its original parents..."

I'm just about sure you are right in saying that Lycoris squamigera is
reproductively isolated from other Lycoris; but the reason it is
reproductively isolated is that it does not reproduce sexually. Or
are there such things as sexually reproducing Lycoris squamigera?

I've always assumed it to be a clone.

I don't have a problem with species which arise via hybridization, as long
as they form sexually reproducing units. To me, that's just a
nomenclatural
problem: the parental species in those cases are really themselves
conspecific, and the proof of that is the ease with which the purported
"hybrid" species forms a sexually reproducing unit.

This happens because "bad" botanists have given species rank names to
populations which, although they are different in appearance, are really
no
more different than breeds of domesticated animals such as dogs.

Also, to my way of thinking, it makes no sense to call an entity which
does
not reproduce sexually a species. If there is not a sexually reproducing
entity which corresponds to what we know as Lycoris squamigera, then it's
not a species.

Jim McKenney
Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where I'm happy to have my
Lycoris reproduce any way at all.

-----Original Message-----
From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org]
On Behalf Of J.E. Shields
Sent: Saturday, August 06, 2005 10:48 AM
To: Pacific Bulb Society
Subject: Re: [pbs] Lycoris squamigera in bloom here in Maryland

Hi Jim McK, and all,

Get a copy of the Chinese paper (in English) on Lycoris species from Jim
Waddick, if Jim W. still has any left. Since the hybrid origin is not all
that clear (as far as I can recall -- wait for someone to do DNA) I
suspect
that the only properly published name is squamigera.

In any case, it seems that new species arise by hybridization in
nature. Since L. squamigera is reproductively isolated from other Lycoris
species including, I presume, both its original parents, it is probably a
good species anyway. Hybrid origin per se would not disqualify it;
reticulate evolution in action. I think there are parthenogenic
(apomictic) species of Zephyranthes (rain lilies) that are considered good
species botanically.

I don't have bloom size squamigera planted here, but I have one scape each
showing on LL. sprengeri, chinensis, and longituba. More should be
popping
up any day now.

Regards,
Jim Shields
in central Indiana (USA)

At 10:27 AM 8/6/2005 -0400, Jim McK. wrote:

*************************************************
Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd.
P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/
Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA
Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA

_______________________________________________
pbs mailing list
pbs@lists.ibiblio.org
http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php

------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Sat, 06 Aug 2005 12:50:55 -0400
From: Arnold Trachtenberg <arnold@nj.rr.com>
Subject: [pbs] assorted
To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID: <42F4EA6F.4030209@nj.rr.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed

Images taken this morning.

http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/…
<http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/…>

<http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/…>
http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/…

Arnold
New Jersey

------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2005 11:17:55 -0500
From: James Waddick <jwaddick@kc.rr.com>
Subject: [pbs] More Lycoris
To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <p06020407bf1a908867c9@[192.168.1.101]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"

Dear All;
We continue too hot and too dry. The only Lycoris in bloom
are those that get some extra moisture. I assume more will pop up
after a decent rainfall. Typical.

A clump of good pure white L. longituba* amazed me when I
took a stick to it- yardstick. The center of the inflorescence was an
easy 36 inches tall and the tallest point another 5-6 inches higher.

So far a few sprengeri and a few chinensis in bloom too. Lots
of squamigera, b ut only in some places.
One stalk on an odd sprengeri x chinensis hybrid looks sort
of like the former but orange with a hint of pink.

A larger clump of an old sprengeri x aurea clump is palest
yellow with a size and form closer to sprengeri.

So many of these are so easy and reliable in this awful
climate and current weather pattern that it seems urgent to get these
propagated and into wider culture. I know the demand is there, if
only the supply were there too.

Steaming and dreaming in Kansas City. Jim W.

* I mention a "good pure white" because, although this is the 'color'
of L. longituba, a number of 1st, 2nd and ...on generation hybrids
with L. chinensis seem to exist that I see a range from pure white to
those with yellow throats to pale yellow to medium yellow. Some have
the form of L. longituba with nearly oval smooth petals and some
approach L. chinensis with narrower ruffled spidery blooms in various
colors. A mixed planting of these hybrids has just begun to bloom
with around 6 or 7 variants. I am sure the rest are waiting for the
rainfall to arrive.
--
Dr. James W. Waddick
8871 NW Brostrom Rd.
Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711
USA
Ph. 816-746-1949
Zone 5 Record low -23F
Summer 100F +

------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2005 10:15:03 -0700
From: "Rodger Whitlock" <totototo@pacificcoast.net>
Subject: Re: [pbs] Alstroemeria query
To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID: <E1E1S3F-000ITF-7f@mx7.uniserve.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

On 3 Aug 05 at 10:12, S. R. Gilbert wrote:

I would plant them out now. If, that is, you have sufficient
space for them in your garden, remembering that each seedling
will spread a ways in every direction if happy.

If you want to vet them for color before planting out, so you
can rogue out the dull, the uninteresting, the boring, and the
so-so ones, then repot the seedlings into quite large pots: 8"
wide x deep at a minimum, if possible even bigger. Deep is more
important that wide for a deeply burrowing Alstroemeria. Make
sure the pots don't offer an escape route via the drainholes
into the soil they sit on -- alstroemeria loves to get its
tubers into good deep soil.

Also, if possible, shade the pots to prevent the sun shining
on their sides and overheating the soil.

I can't quote specific research, but my impression is that
bulbs adjust their depth in the soil according to temperature.
Overheated soil in a pot will cause them to burrow more deeply
in pursuit of a cooler temperature. Naturally, when entrapped
in a pot were *all* the soil is overly warm, the bulb will bump
the bottom and suffer frustration and possible mental problems
in later life, not a Good Thing. (As usual, I jest -- but just
a little.)

In the Ligtu hybrids, you have an excellent cutflower, btw.
They last for weeks in water. If you have the space, grow them
all: not one will be ugly. Your neighbors, and even some local
florists, may be thrilled to see you turn up with masses of
them.

--
Rodger Whitlock
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate

on beautiful Vancouver Island

------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Sat, 06 Aug 2005 12:15:25 -0500
From: "J.E. Shields" <jshields@indy.net>
Subject: [pbs] Speciation. Was: Lycoris squamigera in bloom here in
Maryland
To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20050806115302.01f4f6e0@pop.indy.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

Hi Jim McK.,

I'm not a taxonomist, but I do read a bit in the field
occasionally. Sexual reproduction has never to my knowledge been one of
the criteria for a species. The aforementioned apomictic rain lilies are
not reproducing sexually, albeit they may use what appear to be
seeds. Reproductive isolation is the primary factor, even when it is
achieved by physical isolation -- across a mountain range, for
instance. Hybridization and reproductive isolation are both mechanisms
for
speciation. Failure of sexual reproduction with other species is just
one
way to make a species, but it should be sufficient.

If you want a hairy problem in "what is a species?" look at the
bacteria. They appear to occasionally exchange DNA quite promiscuously
with clearly unrelated bacteria. Otherwise they mainly reproduce
clonaly. I expect to see hierarchical taxonomic classifications of
bacteria replaced by phylogenetic trees based solely on DNA, with the
"species" being labelled with serial numbers instead of names. Indeed,
this seems a prime example of where the evolutionary unit is not the
species nor even the individual, but is the gene, a la Richard Dawkins'
books.

Of course, with each generation of clonal reproduction, mutations can
occur, and these accumulate and are passed on from mother to daughters.
So
there is genetic drift possible even in apomictic or sexually sterile
organisms.

Nature is truly marvelous to behold! There is seemingly no end to the
variations in ways to change organisms -- many don't work, of course. The
most amazing thing is that so many of them do occasionally work! They are
working all the time. The Hymenocallis are in a dynamic state, especially
the species in the southeastern USA. Their DNA makes them look almost
like
a single species, I've heard. Twenty thousand years ago, there probably
was nothing in the present USA that could be called a Hymenocallis. They
returned out of Mexico and the Caribbean as the northern glaciers
retreated, and have been forming new species since then.

Regards,
Jim Shields

At 12:36 PM 8/6/2005 -0400, you wrote:

*************************************************
Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd.
P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/
Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA
Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA

------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Sat, 06 Aug 2005 21:55:54 +0200
From: Carol Jensen <jorna@mobilixnet.dk>
Subject: [pbs] to:///John/ Ingram
To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.0.20050806215426.01e48ad0@mail.mobilixnet.dk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Looking at the wiki page of Lycoris, I noticed that the white pearl
Lycoris looks a lot like my mystery bulb, which was identified as an
ismene by its false sheathed leaves.

Would your pink pearl and white pearl lycoris happen to have a false
sheath?

Carol

------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2005 21:28:44 +0100
From: "Dr Paul Chapman" <cyrtanthus@blueyonder.co.uk>
Subject: [pbs] Crocus corsicus
To: "Pacific Bulb Society" <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <001601c59b8e$bc355400$499130d5@cyrtanthus>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Having just returned from 2 weeks vacation in the Mediterranean (Corfu), I
have just started repotting my summer dormant Mediterranean bulbs, which I
do every other year.

Most pots have produced no surprises; a few bulbs have disappeared with no
explanation, whilst others have grown to flowering size since the last
repotting in 2003.

However, Crocus corsicus seems to have behaved differently to everything
else that I have yet repotted (and I am doing things more or less
alphabetically). My label says that in 2003 I repotted 24 corms. Today
there were 54 - but none were large, certainly not what I would consider
to
be flowering size, and many were tiny, no bigger than Fritillaria "rice".

Does Crocus corsicus need special treatment to achieve flowering size
bulbs?
It currently gets my "standard" treatment for Mediterranean bulbs - in an
unheated greenhouse all year, with windows always open. Absolute minimum
temperature -5oC (23oF), but very rarely below -2oC (28oF) for more than a
few hours at a time. Watered from the beginning of September to mid-May,
then bone dry until September.

I would appreciate any advice anyone can give.

Paul

Dr Paul Chapman, Wallington, Surrey, UK
South London commuter belt suburbia - zone 9a, where Arisaemas are still
in
flower outside, but the Cyrtanthus hybrids have started flowering in the
greenhouse.
mailto:cyrtanthus@blueyonder.co.uk

------------------------------

Message: 12
Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2005 22:53:32 +0200
From: "Alberto Grossi" <crinum@libero.it>
Subject: [pbs] Cryptostephanus haemanthoides
To: "PBS" <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <000801c59b92$12e3b2d0$64fea8c0@6b6625a8caff485>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Hi all,
I have a rhizome of C. haemanthoides but after two years it has no set any
root. Anyone know what to do?
Thank you
Alberto
Italy

------------------------------

Message: 13
Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2005 22:11:46 +0100
From: <johngrimshaw@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [pbs] [IBSMEMBERS] Cryptostephanus haemanthoides
To: <IBSMEMBERS@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <00c601c59b96$87f6df30$05a0403e@John>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

In my experience the rhizome of Cryptostephanus haemanthoides is merely an
attachment point for the shoot and the roots: the roots are the primary
storage organ. I cannot think that the prognosis for a rootless rhizome is
very good, unless it is able to make a shoot and new root growth to enable
it slowly to build up strength.

John Grimshaw

Dr John M. Grimshaw
Garden Manager, Colesbourne Gardens

Sycamore Cottage
Colesbourne
Nr Cheltenham
Gloucestershire GL53 9NP

Tel. 01242 870567
Mobile 07 919 840 063
Fax (Estate Office) 01242 870541

Website: http://www.colesbournegardens.org.uk/

------------------------------

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End of pbs Digest, Vol 31, Issue 5
**********************************