Ken, et al ~ The color Orange and lilies seems to be synonymous. Orange also occurs in daffodils. Now, orange is a funny color as it seems to be one that people either like or dislike on sight. With respect to these two genera (I know next to nothing about South African, etc., genera, as my interests lie with these two), I'd have a few comments. Alas, I don't really know that much about the physics of color either, but I won't let that stop me! So, if I say something that doesn't ring true, you know who to blame . . . ! Orange, as a color, can be approached from two sides of the spectrum -- red or yellow. Thus, I suppose the color orange is some mixture of these two. Of all the varying shades of orange occurring in lilies and daffodils, there doesn't often appear to be a balance, as (to my eye) there is usually more of one color than the other. This results in not the perfect blend but varying degrees of garishness that is often unpleasant. Daffodils. There are few daffodils that I would say posses a true orange. Somewhere, I recently read (I think in a contribution to this thread) a comment with respect to determining how/when a the color moves from gold to orange (as a sidebar, the RHS color chart helps enormously). And this is often the dilemma with many daffodils. Indeed, some of my favorite trumpet examples are a concolorous deep, brassy gold that borders on orange -- very different from the mundane yellow of so many. Linda Wallpe (and others) mentioned a number of "orange" perianth daffodil hybrids. While these are most interesting -- if only because they represent such a marked departure from the typical yellow or white perianth -- they're not really orange as I would describe it. Incidentally, two additional ones of this genre are 'Sunstroke' (bred and registered by a physician, wouldn't you know it!) and 'Warm Day.' They represent state-of-the-art of the type and are really quite dark, especially when they first open as they can honestly be described as "jaw dropping." The latter has better color retention in bright light, although there are no sunfast examples. This amber-reddish-orange color is overlaid onto the base color of yellow and, as the darker color begins to fade at maturity with increasing exposure to ultraviolet, more of the yellow appears. Paradoxically, and frustratingly (perhaps), protected from bright sunlight, the colors can be intense. So handled, the flowers make stunning show exhibits. Interestingly, those Y-R daffodils that have a color flush more akin to red on their perianth petals (in the lower third, only, alas) also have the best color retention but the color is not as advanced as in the amber-orange-red examples. I think the truest approach to orange is found in the old Division 2 clone 'Arbar,' accurately color coded 2 W-O. The corona is a very even, concolor orange without obvious admixture of either yellow or orange. The flat white perianth behind the corona is the perfect foil for this color. It is, however, not at all a common color in daffodil hybrids of my acquaintance. Since this clone is the parent or grandparent of a number of today's hybrids, this particular shade emerges to greater or lesser degree in several of the offspring. None surpass the original, in my opinion. Incidentally, 'Ambergate' was bred by an Englishman, Douglas Milne, and registered some fifty years ago. Interesting that it is still popular today. The proprietor of Ambergate Gardens (perennials) in Minnesota was so taken with the color, they named the business for it! If it's the color in daffodils you're most taken with, select any of the above or one or all of those recommended by Linda! Lilies. The color orange is synonymous with the genus Lilium. From the standpoint of evolution, it was the color of choice (for whatever reason; it might be interesting to understand why, though!) for many Asiatic and North American species in the genus. It is seldom the color of choice for most lily fanciers and that may very well be due to the lack of pure orange. Certainly, that was my feeling -- until last Summer when I first saw the tetraploid Asiatic hybrid, 'Brunello.' This spotless, upfacing lily has broad tepals of heavy substance and smooth texture and colored the most beguiling shade of soft, pure orange that I have ever seen in a lily (the only competitor would be 'Liberty Hyde Bailey'). The backs of the tepals and the stems are shaded substantially darker, a contrast that serves to make the flower just that more appealing. I can vividly recall just sitting there admiring it (when I should have doing other more pressing things!!) and wondering why I did so. I finally decided that it was the shade of orange that was so appealing, as it had no discernible amount of either red or yellow present but appeared as a perfect blend of both. The brilliant red-orange 'Enchantment,' when it first appeared on the scene in the middle of the last century, created a sensation! Advancement though it was, I have never found the color to be attractive. Judith Freeman, the country's largest breeder/grower/retailer of lilies is on record as saying she virtually cannot give away orange lilies! I would say that she is going to be pleasantly surprised to find there is a very real market for 'Brunello!' Interestingly, it is also the lily of choice in this color and type for Oregon Flowers, a giant grower of cut flower lilies (if you've ever bought 'Stargazer' lilies, the probability is very high they were grown here) based in Aurora, OR. "Orange" is also a color that appears in several hybrids and hybrid strains of trumpet lilies. It is often described as "cantaloupe." Whatever. This shade, too, seems to be rather more that perfect blend of the two base colors. 'Anaconda,' a famous clone selected from the original OBF strain of Copper King many years back had deep red-brown exteriors to the tepals that served to emphasize and heighten the color within. The "Anaconda/Copper King" strain being sold today is but an inferior comparison to the original, alas. With spectacular tetraploid forms now extant in Division, VI, perhaps the hybrids derived from these plants will once again approach the glory of the original. Dave Karnstedt Cascade Daffodils Silverton, Oregon 97381 Cool Mediterranean climate; USDA Zone 7-8