Dear All, I'm going to stick to the paper towel method in the future. Some of you may remember that I had trouble getting any seeds on several different batches of seed in the past. The seed might not have been fresh, but I suspect that they all needed warmer temperatures than they got. The best luck I had was with some I started in the house. So I do not think the change between day and night temperatures that seems to help with germination of many of the winter rainfall Cape species is helpful. That makes sense since this is not a winter rainfall species. Maybe Rhoda could describe for us the conditions when it would normally germinate. After Hamish told us about his success using the paper towel method a month or more ago I looked at my seed pots. In one of them the seed was all rotted. In the other (more than a year later where they had been outside) some of the seeds looked intact so I washed them off and put them between two sheets of wet paper towels in a plastic bag in a warm place and one of the seeds almost immediately germinated. The others are probably not going to do anything, but I still count that one a miracle seedling. It made me a believer and Don Journet's testimony today has reinforced it for me. The nice thing about this method too is that you are then able to plant the seedlings exactly where you want them. Mary Sue Mary Sue Ittner California's North Coast Wet mild winters with occasional frost Dry mild summers