At 09:54 AM 7/30/2004 -0700, John Ingram wrote: >Why is it that only the >Chinese and Japanese have such elegantly worded names >for plants? I think we are missing out on something >here. Not everyone has looked at it that way. The older popular horticultural literature takes some pot shots at these naming conventions. That the older writers felt and expressed some frustration here is not surprising: in the bad old days, tree peonies supplied by Japanese and Chinese dealers were evidently routinely mislabeled. See The Peonies edited by Wister. Also, there was doubtless a bit of class sniping going on, too: tree peonies back then were for the few, and those getting a neck ache looking up to Olympus are sometimes known to translate that pain into sardonically colorful language. You go on to quote Rick: >"Just as I have seen. One thing that I have noticed is >that the Chinese plants seem to grow better in the >milder areas and the colder it gets the worse they >seem to grow. On the other hand, the Japanese plants >thrive wherever I sell them, and do not have the >complaints that I do with the Chinese plants. That is >why I thought the Chinese ones would do well for >you in L.A." Now this is getting interesting. In recent years, Chinese-grown tree peonies have appeared in local shops. Generally they are less expensive than the Japanese-grown plants (and they appear to be different cultivars). The Chinese plants are bigger, twiggier plants than the Japanese-grown plants, which typically are little more than a scion and stock stuck together. Those Chinese plants are very tempting. When you unpack them, they seem to be a much better deal than the Japanese-grown plants. There are often multiple stems and a superficially much better developed root system. In fact, take a careful look at that root system. What are you seeing? I'm not sure myself. The Japanese-grown plants are grafted on lactiflora roots. These Chinese plants seem not to be grafted at all. Are they propagated by division? Or are they grafted onto tree peony roots, thus in effect masking the graft? In any case, those roots are always cut off at a predetermined length - about four inches. Presumably, before cutting, they were much longer. Presumably, all of the active feeding parts of the roots are cut off. The buyer is left with the stumps. Watch out! When you buy these Chinese-grown tree peonies, you're more than likely buying trouble. The tops are ready to surge into growth with the arrival of warmth, but they have no root system to support them. Nor in my experience do those stubby roots put out feeder roots easily. THESE PLANTS REQUIRE LOTS OF TLC JUST TO KEEP THEM ALIVE! I think history is repeating itself here. Read Wister. The old growers had in general much better luck with the Japanese-grown plants, too. John, one thing you might be on the look out for: your LA garden should be just the place for the so-called winter-blooming tree peonies. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@starpower.net Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where Dew Drop on the Titmouses's Tail and Kitten Scratches on Antique Brocade are not yet in my tree peony collection. >Jim, et al. >I have a few comments on Peonies here in L.A. I had a >'Mons. Jules Elie' (A herbaceous variety) that >flowered this spring. The plant is a single wisp of a >stem. It attmepted a bud last year but I was out of >town at the time and it aborted for whatever reason. >As Jim said, with this being a herbaceous peony, I had >little hopes of it doing anything. I just force it >into dormancy in the fall and it comes back on it's >own accord when it's ready. >I will be getting some selections of Chinese tree >peonies to try here in LA. > >Here is an excerpt from Rick (owner) of Brother's >Peonies: > >"Just as I have seen. One thing that I have noticed is >that the Chinese plants seem to grow better in the >milder areas and the colder it gets the worse they >seem to grow. On the other hand, the Japanese plants >thrive wherever I sell them, and do not have the >complaints that I do with the Chinese plants. That is >why I thought the Chinese ones would do well for >you in L.A." > >I have planted a Chinese variety (in OH), 'Wu Long >Peng Sheng', roughly translated as "lack Dragon >Holding Prosperous Bloom". Why is it that only the >Chinese and Japanese have such elegantly worded names >for plants? I think we are missing out on something >here. Anyway, it has struggled along for the last few >years. It has been in the ground for 3 years now. I >have hopes that next year it will reward me with some >bloom. >The only other Chinese tree that I have had (also in >OH) is 'Yen Fin Jin Lin'. It is even smaller than the >above. > >I would be very interested in trying some >Mediterranean species here in LA but I have never been >able to find them offered, either as seeds or plants. > >One side note about planting, Walters Gardens only >sells it peonies in the spring. I have tried to get >them in the fall for proper planting and they will not >release them. Walters, for those who do not know, are >a large wholesaler in MI that sells trays of 4" plants >to the retail trade. Their stuff is really nice but I >don't want peonies in the spring. It is just useless. >They will struggle for several years just to get back >up to snuff. But, they do offer, at a decent price, >several Japanese tree varieties. > >One thing that Jim did not explain in his email was >the reason for planting in the fall. The peony plant >only puts out new roots in the cooler fall weather. >So, that 2-3 root thing that you get in the spring, >will have to support the whole plant for the summer >until it can regrow some fibrous roots in the fall. I >don't know which comes first, top growth dormancy or >root growth. Maybe Jim can answer that question. > >I am growing also here in LA 2 tree peonies that have >done OK. They really need to be put into some real >planting mix. I have 'High Noon' a gorgeous clear >yellow bloom and another unnamed purple variety. They >have not bloomed for me as yet though. > > >===== >John Ingram in L.A., CA. >http://www.floralarchitecture.com/ check it out >Floralartistry2000@yahoo.com >310.709.1613 (cell, west coast time, please call accordingly. Thank you) >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >