I would suspect this is the Canadian case you refer to: https://monsanto.com/company/media/… Tim Eck > -----Original Message----- > From: pbs [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net] On Behalf Of Tim > Eck > Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2018 8:38 PM > To: 'Pacific Bulb Society' > Subject: Re: [pbs] Question regarding commercial advertising > > Jo-Ann, > This (in part) is what Monsanto had to say on the subject: > > "Since 1997, we have only filed suit against farmers 147 times in the United > States. This may sound like a lot, but when you consider that we sell seed to > more than 325,000 American farmers a year, it’s really a small number. Of > these, we’ve proceeded through trial with only nine farmers. All nine cases > were found in Monsanto’s favor." > > A very small number of farmers involved in patent infringement cases with > Monsanto have sought publicity around their cases, and have characterized > the company’s actions in a negative light. In some other situations, outside > parties have portrayed particular cases negatively. We take exception to any > misleading allegation of wrong-doing. Our employees and contractors respect > our customers and their property." > > > Apparently, the case you mention could only be one of these nine cases that > went to court so it shouldn't be hard to find. The anti-Monsanto propaganda > was much more prevalent on the web. > > Thanks > Tim Eck > > “Time is nature’s way of preventing everything from happening at once.” > Anon. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: pbs [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net] On Behalf Of > > Jo&Greg > > Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2018 3:47 PM > > To: 'Pacific Bulb Society' > > Subject: Re: [pbs] Question regarding commercial advertising > > > > Tim, with due respect, that was not the case. > > Monsanto's original claim was that of willful intent to steal, but when it was > > obvious it would not go forward because the defendant proved in pre-trial > he > > did not know his seed had been infected, and the infection of his seed was > > undesirable ... he was an organic grain farmer. So the Monsanto lawyers > > narrowed the legal argument to usage, not willful intent to steal or profit, a > > de facto crime whether or not intended, and that was how the company > won > > the case. And I read the judge's statement. More importantly, I read his > > comments, which the federal judge also specifically asked to be published in > > Canadian media ... to wit ... that he (the judge) felt the issue was a > > miscarriage of justice, that he was constrained to find against the farmer, > > who was now bankrupt largely because of the ruining of his grain, only > > because his power as a judge was limited to a ruling that fell ONLY within > the > > legal wording in the complaint. He said the Monsanto lawyers were very > > careful to word their complaint just so, and so they won. The judge said in > > words of one syllable that the farmer was right, and further that Monsanto > > had used its power to destroy a farmer and send a message to all who > > disagreed. He said that if he were able in some legal way, he would have > not > > only found against Monsanto, but forced them to pay all the legal costs, pay > > back the farmer for lost harvest, and levied fines against the company as > > large a fine as Canadian jurisprudence could allow. > > > > So, whatever side of the GMO fence one lives one, I agree, Tom ... be > careful > > of only reading only what you already agree with. > > Jo-Ann Canning > > Vancouver Island > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: pbs <pbs-bounces@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net> On Behalf Of Tim Eck > > Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2018 7:00 PM > > To: 'Pacific Bulb Society' <pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net> > > Subject: Re: [pbs] Question regarding commercial advertising > > > > It's worth mentioning that "the horrible Monsanto cases" were decided > based > > on the willful intent and action of a farmer to steal the RoundUp Ready > gene > > from a neighbor's pollen source and breed his own RoundUp Ready seed > > without compensating Monsanto. It's so easy to buy into villainizing > > propaganda when you only get your information from "like-minded people". > > > > Tim Eck > > > > “Time is nature’s way of preventing everything from happening at once.” > > Anon. > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: pbs [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net] On Behalf > > > Of Jo&Greg > > > Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2018 12:43 PM > > > To: 'Pacific Bulb Society' > > > Subject: Re: [pbs] Question regarding commercial advertising > > > > > > Perhaps a note or two regarding patented plants may help. My comments > > > come from my experience with publishing, and copyright info in both > > > USA and Canada ... copyright is slightly different yet using the same > > > underlying principles as a patent. > > > "Resale" and "propagation" and "commercial" all refer to for-profit > > business. > > > Non-profit organizations can offer books, plants, seed, etc., for sale > > > without crossing copyright -- and as far as I've found out -- patent > > > regulations. Plant patents are also legally suspect. You cannot patent > > > a recipe or technique and the horrible Monsanto cases against the > > > grain farmers aside, some feel the change in the plant is more like a > > > recipe shift than something new or unique (the DNA is not > > > fundamentally changed), and natural self-sowing or seed drift from > natural > > sources are outside the purview of an intent to retail a product. > > > That said, plants can at present be patented. > > > > > > So, I'd go ahead and have that plant sale and seed swap. And remember, > > > though we are not a group of veggies farmers, when it comes to Big Hort: > > > "Control my food, control my politics, control distribution, control my > > politics." > > > Just my old-hippie-somewhat-anarchistic opinion. > > > Jo Canning > > > Vancouver Island, Canada > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: pbs <pbs-bounces@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net> On Behalf Of Jan > > > Jeddeloh > > > Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2018 4:10 PM > > > To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net> > > > Subject: Re: [pbs] Question regarding commercial advertising > > > > > > While we’re griping about Big Horticulture I’d like to add my gripe > > > about patented plants. I’ve been stung too often by patented pretty > > > faces and have learned that a patent does not necessarily reflect the > > > value or grow-ability of the plant, although it seems like it ought > > > to. Too often big nurseries patent every tiny variation and rush the > > > plant to market. Sometimes it appears they apply for a patent just to > > > lock up the market for a year or two and then stop producing the plant > > > once the word gets out that it’s not a good doer. You go to the > > > nursery, are smitten with the pretty face, bring home your new plant > > > whereupon it promptly dies. I’ve had this experience several times. > > > And don’t get me started on the million heucheras or coneflowers out > > > there. They are sold as perennials but most have an annual life in > > > your normal, less than perfect home garden. You know, the home garden > > that does not have the mythical well drained, evenly moist soil. > > > > > > Patented plant are also becoming a problem for plant society plant > > > sales. I organize our NARGS chapter participation in the Hortlandia > > > sale and we have to watch that we don’t offer patented plants. As > > > more and more plants are patented it will become harder to find plants > > > we can propagate. Yes growing from seed it great but many of our > > > members want to donate divisions and cutting grown plants. Plant tags > > > get lost and it would be very easy to inadvertently offer a patented plant > for > > sale. > > > > > > I realize plant breeders want to get some kind of return from their > > > investment of time and money but it shouldn’t be too much to ask that > > > the plants be good doers and truly unique. They should also be > > > adequately trailed. One or two years is just not enough. I have > > > found a couple of patented plants that are worth growing. Geranium > > > “Roxanne” blooms all summer, does not spit seed all over and is tough. > > > Salvia “Amistad”, while tender, puts on a great summer show and is > > > much beloved by bees and hummingbirds. It also seems rather silly to > > > patent plants that will self propagated. If it’s going to form a big > > > clump you can easily hack apart gardeners are going to share it > > > around. This takes no real skill. If you want to patent a plant it ought to > > require a bit of skill to propagate or you will lose the battle of controlling its > > propagation. > > > > > > To bring this back around to bulbs does anyone know of any patented > > > bulbs? I know Terra Nova at one point had applied for a patent on a > > > Cyclamen coum selection with a Christmas tree marking on the leaves. > > > I wonder if this was denied because it wouldn’t be hard to find look a > > > likes in many groups of coum seedlings. It’s not in their current catalog. > > > > > > Jan Jeddeloh > > > > On Jun 20, 2018, at 9:59 AM, Jane McGary <janemcgary@earthlink.net> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > I've been purchasing plants and bulbs for about 35 years now. I'm > > > > fortunate > > > to live in Clackamas County, Oregon, which has more nurseries than any > > > other US county, so "local" can mean anything from a daphne at the > > farmers' > > > market to a viburnum from the big Monrovia fields on the other side of > > > the river. I buy some unusual cultivars and rooted cuttings for > > > cutflowers by mail order, mostly from specialty nurseries. Most years > > > I obtain some commercial bulbs for planting out in front of the house > > > -- daffodils to distract the bulb fly from the good ones in back, anemones > > and crocuses for the bulb lawn, etc. > > > Almost all of my bulb "collection" has been grown from seed. > > > > > > > > I agree with Robin that there's false advertising by large > > > > commercial > > > nurseries, but small ones do so as well, especially in exaggerating > > > cold- hardiness. They may not mean to, but if you're growing plants on > > > an island you don't have the same conditions as most of your customers > > > who live 150 km or more inland. Conversely, nurseries in colder areas > > > who keep all their stock in greenhouses may produce plants that are > > > hard to acclimate to outdoor conditions anywhere. Growing your own > > > from seed is likely to result in losses, but the survivors will be easier to > keep, > > and much cheaper. > > > > > > > > Two years ago I had the experience Ellen mentions of buying a shrub > > > > that > > > had been bulked up by keeping two cuttings in one pot, but I got it at > > > the farmers' market and the grower told me about it. It's a hybrid > > > daphne; I was able to disentangle the root systems, potted them > > > separately for a couple of months before planting out, and now have > > > two very fine shrubs. This spring I went on a spending spree on > > > Dianthus cultivars. One nursery sent me excellent plants, but > > > another's plants had been in their pots far too long (I repotted them > > > and waited until they recovered to plant them out). I almost never put > > > a purchased plant into the garden the day after I get it. For one thing, you > > have to watch them for disease. > > > > > > > > As for bulbs that fail, it helps to understand the growth cycles, > > > > natural > > > habitats, and structure of the particular species and genera. Bulbs > > > with strong tunics, such as tulips, can stand dry storage much better > > > than those without tunics, such as most Fritillaria. A species native > > > to rocky desert will survive storage better than one native to river > > > meadows. A species native to the alpine zone may not flourish without > > > a long winter dormancy (hence the plants "hardy in Denver" that can't > > > be grown in lowland gardens). It is also instructive to learn how > > > commercial bulbs are grown and processed in the Netherlands, where > > > they can be grown in sand, heavily fertilized, protected from > > > predators, lifted and kept in warehouses controlled for temperature > > > and humidity, and exported in advantageous condition. After a month at > > > Home Depot and transfer to a home garden, they'll likely perform for a > > > year but that may be the limit of their adaptability. Moreover, > > > controlled conditions can suppress the activity of viruses, which may > > > resurface in the home garden; that's why all my tulips are grown from > seed, > > and I buy lily bulbs only from The Lily Garden, which I trust to provide clean > > stock. > > > > > > > > So read, read, read, and be prepared to lose some plants anyway. You > > > > can > > > identify an experienced gardener by their possession of a big bag of > > > plantless labels. > > > > > > > > Jane McGary > > > > > > > > Portland, Oregon, USA > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > pbs mailing list > > > > pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net > > > > http://lists.pacificbulbsociety.net/cgi-bin/… > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > pbs mailing list > > > pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net > > > http://lists.pacificbulbsociety.net/cgi-bin/… > > > > > > > > > --- > > > This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. > > > https://www.avg.com/ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > pbs mailing list > > > pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net > > > http://lists.pacificbulbsociety.net/cgi-bin/… > > > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net > > http://lists.pacificbulbsociety.net/cgi-bin/… > > > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net > > http://lists.pacificbulbsociety.net/cgi-bin/… > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net > http://lists.pacificbulbsociety.net/cgi-bin/… _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net http://lists.pacificbulbsociety.net/cgi-bin/…