Dear Boyce, I was waiting for someone to respond to Tom's passionate reply. I hope you are not bruised and bleeding after his hearty lashing. I am sure it IS NOT personal, but reflects a strong reaction to the professional botanic garden staffs* in many locations around the world and not just that of the Chicago BG. Dear Tom, Bravo. I think your comments are very heartfelt and worth pursuing. You as a professional nursery owner (mostly) and plant collector are really caught between the 'authorities' who can impose well meaning regulations that only slightly affect their own limitations, but do grievous harm to your commercial pursuit and activities. Odd that both sides want the same sort of 'conservation', but see things so very differently. The CBD is well meaning, but distorted almost from Day 1 and remaining problematical. Whether you conform to it or defy it , the results seem the same: denying some experts the right to grow and distribute plants that would benefit from such propagation and distribution. In situ conservation may be impossible for many organism, but denying their propagation and distribution from captive material only exacerbates the situation. The rarer the plant, the higher the value until the last individual is wildly precious, but has no value if it cannot be propagated and sold. Surely there are some middle grounds. Some might suggest that an organization like PBS or NARGS or AGS or even AHS and RHS campaign to resolve the issue of propagation and distribution, but there seem to be complicities within complicities and well meaning do-gooders preventing all the most desirable results. I don't have a clue to even an approach to an answer, but the current situation seems foolish at best. Tom and Boyce can you suggest the first step to resolve this? A step that shows cooperation between both the regulators and authorities, and the growers and gardeners who might implement some changes? Best Jim W. * as well as national regulatory agencies, greed and the status quo -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F +