>Here's a question for the peony experts: do the Itoh interdivisional >hybrids ever form short, above ground woody growths? Dear PBSers, Jim McK's questions is a more interesting question than might appear to most. The word 'Interdivisional' is very generic, both odd and appropriate. Any taxonomic division except the very lowest can be divided into lower "divisions" such as Family to Genus or Order to Family and so on. The taxonomist will often divide some taxonomic level into less severe divisions such of subfamily, subgenus etc., The taxonomic categories include order, family, genus and species. There is no taxonomic level called a division. The genus Paeonia has three 'fairly obvious' divisions: Most herbaceous species from Europe and Asia (with a small dip into N. Africa). the woody or 'tree" peonies and the isolated peonies of Western North America. Over the years the genus has been divided into three subgenera or into three sections. The term 'section' may be new to some, but it is taxonomic division between genus and species, but is little used today. It takes some precedent when there are major divisions between the subgeneric divisions and there are very distinct species within a subgenus. Generally not very common these days. Yet if you were to look at most of the modern reviews of peony taxonomy, you see that the genus is often divided into 3 sections in the genus. The one exception is "The Genus Paeonia" by Halda & Waddick (Timber Press, 2004) where the genus is divided into what I consider more sensible subgenera. All this is appropriate to Jim McK's sentence because some striking hybrids have been developed between these major divisions in the genus starting with a Mr Itoh in Japan. These quickly became known as 'Itoh Hybrids" and then more generically as 'Intersectional hybrids'. The former term has been firmly attached by the American Peony Society to those intrageneric hybrids involving the species used by Mr Itoh. Some newer hybrids have involved other species and even other divisions of the genus. So the term "Intersectional" really covers all such hybrids not only those original Itoh hybrids, but all newer wider hybrids. But if the proper division of the genus is into subgenera, these hybrid are more properly intersubgeneric hybrids. Needles to say it is easier for most people to call them all 'Itohs", but "Intersectionals' is more appropriate even if taxonomically suspect, while "Intersubgeneric" probably confers the most appropriate title, but is very ungainly. These intersectional hybrids (I'll use the term most often seen in horticultural circles) combine characters of both woody and herbaceous species. Some of these produce short above ground semi-woody stems that can retain viable looking winter buds above ground just as Jim McK describes. Herbaceous peonies NEVER do this and tree peonies do this continuously with woody stems growing longer and persisting for years. Although I have yet to see a scientific study of these above ground stems, it seems to me from casual observation that most of the time that buds on these above ground stems fail to develop. I think this is due to the incompletely woody development of of these stems. The buds may be hardy enough to 'survive, but lack the hardiness of a true viable woody stems. In my garden I have seen these 'woody appearing' stems get to six inches or more and have 3 or 4 dormant buds, but never had true woody stem with viable dormant buds that developed in spring into new growth. In milder climates, do these these dormant buds ever develop at all (Tony ?). And ....., today most of these original Itoh hybrids (there were four of them originally brought to the US and registered) are little grown. Modern intersectional hybrids are much improved over these old Itohs. Personally I would not recommend them except to collectors for their historical interest. As an aside, years ago I helped establish a local peony society ( peonies.com) and we hold a big peony sale every second fall. This year we have named 'The Year of the Intersectional Peony' and we will have over 100 plants of 24 or so named intersectional hybrids including some of the newest cutting edge cvs. None of the original Itohs are in the sale. That was convoluted. best Jim W. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F +