On May 15, 2008, at 5:32 PM, Robin Bell wrote: > However, I have come to the conclusion > that this is such a subjective thing, that it is almost beyond > comprehension: even for two people standing in front of the same > plant. > Certainly we are at, or close to, the bottom of the pack. That is why > I am very suspicious of this as a criterion for plant I.D. unless > it's based on machines such as gas chromatography. > I don't know whether a plants > fragrance is modified by cultural conditions, but, considering how > many other aspects are, it would be hard for me to believe that it is > not. Surely, at least as likely to compound the issue is individual > (human) variation. I know that to a certain extent, smell is subjective. And the sense of taste is also greatly affected by the sense of smell. In fact, I remember from long ago in high school biology class when we arrived in class and there were small paper strips on everyone's desk. At a certain point, the teacher told everyone to place the strip on our tongues. Immediately, more than half the class spit out the paper and made sounds of disgust, while the remaining students stared at their classmates in bewilderment because they couldn't taste anything at all. It turns out that a significant percentage (of Americans?) do not have the gene to be able to detect/taste this particular compound--at all. For the majority who do have the gene, it tastes very bitter. Since smell is a significant part of our ability to taste, it doesn't surprise me that different people can have different reactions to the same esters or other compounds that go into making the fragrance of a particular flower. It can also explain why some people don't smell any fragrance at all in some flowers that many others do detect. The point is that there are some fragrances that a large majority of all humans can detect that shouldn't be ignored just because a minority of humans can't detect it. Should we ignore the colors of some flowers just because a minority of humans can't see or distinguish certain colors? Now whether it's a pleasant fragrance or not may well be a matter of cultural conditions. So I can understand reticence with which adjectives might be used to describe the fragrance. However, I think that if a majority can detect the fragrance it ought to be noted just as a majority can detect certain tastes such as sweet or bitter or sour, and foods or fruits can certainly be aptly described including descriptions of taste. And while I still love flowers that have no fragrance that I can detect, for many reasons other than the fragrance, I also equally love flowers whose fragrance may be their most notable characteristic. So I am in the other camp that wonders why fragrance isn't also always included as yet one more component of a species' ensemble of characteristics. IMNSHO, I think it's just as important as how long or wide the tepals are or the peduncle or some other part of the flower. Just because some people can't detect the fragrance doesn't mean it's not important; it just makes it a more difficult characteristic to describe if you happen to be the botanist who is describing a new species and just happen to be missing a gene that allows you to detect the fragrance, even if the large majority of humans CAN detect it. It frustrates me to no end to read about a species new to me that doesn't have an appearance or other visible quality that strikes my fancy and so I turn down the opportunity to obtain it, only to discover some time later after the opportunity has passed that it has an amazingly wonderful fragrance that would have made me instantly snatch it up, but that was never mentioned in its description. (And yes, there are some scents that I don't find pleasing that others do (e.g., "paperwhite" Narcissus), or that are too strong and so rapidly become unpleasant in enclosed spaces. But some of these I love when growing in the right setting for that plant. One that always comes to mind is the one called night blooming jasmine (Cestrum nocturnum). I would never have chosen to grow this based on what the plant or its flowers look like. The flowers are very small and too pale greenish for my tastes and the plant is tall and gangly. And while it is too strong and unpleasant up close for me to ever bring a "bouquet" of the flowers inside in a vase, to me it is intoxicating to step outside into a yard on a warm summer night where one of these plants is blooming somewhere in the yard.) On the other hand, I was just as entranced the first time I saw a raceme of Strongylodon macrobotrys ("Jade Vine") in bloom. (Some of my friends I showed the blooms to at the Huntington this year thought it was merely an interesting curiosity and kind of weird.) --Lee Poulsen Pasadena, California, USA, USDA Zone 10a