On 5 May 08, at 12:32, James Waddick wrote: > Martagon lilies - forget them. Never had a bloom although > most lilies do just fine and I wouldn't be without them. Martagons are a success in my ex-swamp/former marsh. By sheer dumb luck, I planted them in a congenial position, shaded on the south by a neighbor's hedge (red cedars that are starting to get too big for comfort), in my usual heavyish, clayish, dampish soil. They flower and seed with abandon, and self-sown seedlings appear in modest numbers. IOW: they don't seem to need a lot of direct sun; they like soil that's never really bone dry; they can handle lots of water in winter; they don't want a summer baking. Also comfortable in this site, the fragrant Trillium albidum and Sanguinaria canadensis 'Multiplex'. Too comfortable: Anemone nemorosa 'Vestal', which has gotten mixed up with a patch of Ophiopogon japonicus minor; the entire area is going to have to be lifted and the soil screened to remove the anemone. Ugh! The same conditions also suit Narcissus eystettensis, in case anybody is thinking of springing for a start of this rare but beautiful antique cultivar -- it was in Parkinson's "Paradisus in Soli Paradisi." (I hope I've got that name right.) In the thread on Over Enthuiastic Bulbs, Diane Whitehead mentioned Hyacinthoides (aka Endymion). I second, third, and in fact millionth her nomination for Worst Bulbous Pest of All Time (with a nod to Ornithogalum umbellatum). I was in my previous house 13 years. Every spring I would sedulously lift all the Hyacinthoides I could find. When I left, after 13 years of digging, there were as many as ever. I've been in my present house nearly 20 years, and the same thing has happened: as many, if not more, than ever. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate on beautiful Vancouver Island