I was intrigued by John Crellin's question about Leucojum aestivum and the differences between ssp. aestivum and ssp. pulchellum, so spent a few minutes yesterday scrutinising various stocks in my parents' garden. In L. aestivum the scape is somewhat flattened and it has two 'sharp' edges. This edge is what botanists term scarious, i.e. unpigmented and translucent, as can be seen if you hold it to the light. In ssp. aestivum this margin has a scattering minute bumps along it. They can be seen with the naked eye, but a lens would be better, and they can also be felt if you run a finger along the edge. These bumps are said to be always absent in ssp. pulchellum - as they are in my plants, but it is a rather tenuous character. More useful for gardeners is the fact that ssp. pulhellum flowers 2-3 weeks earlier than ssp. aestivum, with smaller flowers: it is nearly finished here. 'Gravetye Giant' is undoubtedly a selection of ssp. aestivum, distributed from William Robinson's garden at Gravetye Manor many years ago. It is certainly bigger than the average L. aestivum seen in gardens. It has great presence by a pond, for example. It's the only named clone in general circulation, but the few of us who are interested in L. aestivum rate the one distributed by Primrose Warburg as 'Nancy Lindsay's Best Form' to be far superior. It is shorter but the flowers have a good rounded outline and present a much more solid appearance than those of 'Gravetye Giant, which has a much narrower bell. Nancy Lindsay's clone came from the south of France. The origin of most cultivated L. aestivum is not clear: it is found across Europe to the Crimea and the eastern side of the Black Sea, and I suspect that some trade material is imported from the wild. It would be nice to know the more about the pattern of variation in the wild. John Grimshaw Dr John M. Grimshaw Garden Manager, Colesbourne Gardens Sycamore Cottage Colesbourne Nr Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL53 9NP Tel. 01242 870567 Mobile 07 919 840 063 Fax (Estate Office) 01242 870541 Website: http://www.colesbournegardens.org.uk/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "JohnCrellin" <john@crellin.org.uk> Subject: RE: [pbs] "Bermudian snowdrop" <> Lodden Lily > Thank you. If this is the only difference I am a little suspicious whether > 'Gravetye Giant' is much different from L. aestivum subsp. aestivum which > has larger flowers than subsp. pulchellum according to Stace. But I will see > what the "wild" ones on the River Lodden are like before I say any more ! > > Do your 'Gravetye Giant' flower stems have smooth sharp edges or slightly > denticulate ones ? (I realize it's a bit late to ask from what you say !) > >>