Dear Georgie, Those were my descriptions. I don't think #8 seems to be T. ixioides scabra based on the key I came up with from all my books and talking with you and Diana. I have some exceptional T. ixioides ssp. scabra from seed the two of you collected that blooms for months and is a marvelous plant. The lobes on this one I collected seed from are more ascending and not as flat as I understood scabra to be, but the tube measurement is a little off for ixioides ixioides. It doesn't fit either exactly. It is bright yellow and very attractive and I'm happy just to leave it at T. ixioides and not quibble about a subspecies. I'll look and see if I can find a picture of either to scan in for the image lists. When I talked to you before and described #9 which I was delighted with when it bloomed you thought it could be what you called 'Sierra Giant' and on my tag I call it that with a question mark. I just was reluctant to include that with a description since you hadn't seen it in person. It's a great form regardless. Mary Sue