Glad to see so many familiar faces here. For those who do not know me I will give a brief synopsis. There is more detail on my web page about my background. Right now I am a garden and floral designer in the Los Angeles area. I grow many varieties of plants such as (cover your ears Cathy) palms (love them, all my clients have them), gesneriads (mainly Sinningias and close relatives), orchids (only a few now but in college it was over 200 in my dorm room on a light cart but most were donated to my college at graduation before going to Europe), bulbs (like. Duh..mainly amaryllids - Griffinia, Worsleya, Hippeastrum spp., rain lilies, Crocosmias, Crinum, Cyrtanthus, Canna, misc. "things"), aroids (mostly anthuriums, some Amorphophallus, Alocasia/Colocasia/Xanthosoma, and misc.), tropical foliage plants, flowering tropical trees, and just plain anything not found at most nurseries and overall hard to find plants (as if I'm the only one, right?) I also go to Ohio (Akron/Canton area) twice a year to do the landscaping for my aunt and uncle there. So, I also have a great interest in "tropical" things that just might work there as well. I have added quite a few plants that I have left in the ground last year just to try and see what happened. Granted it was a very mild winter but some things that are still there (with no winter protection at all) are; needle palms, Sabal minor (another native palm), callas ('Green Goddess', aethiopica, and I think the orange one is 'Flame' both flowering at the present time I am told), Acidanthera, Dahlias ('Karma Fuchsiana', 'Bishop of Llandoff', and 'CafŽ au Lait' - first and last have been in the ground for 3 winters now), Ipheion uniflora, Lycoris (6 spp. from Kelly Irwin's Bulbmeister), Agapanthus (common blue CA varieties, 5 plants survived), Crinum powellii and C. p. alba (not a hard one to figure out but I have planted two from Plant Delights - 'Olene' and 'Regina's Disco Lounge' as my nieces name is Regina and it is now her garden to "care for"), Tritonia (from Brent and Becky's I don't remember which varieties off the top of my head), and there are more but I am too blond to remember. Anyway. I also do the Keukenhof type planting. Several years ago I planted 5000 bulbs. Mostly hybrid tulips but also a few crocus (300), Nectoscordum (50), Chinodoxus (1000), Daffs (800 for naturalizing), grape hyacinths M. armeniacum - gotta love that weed - 500), and I think that is about it except for my intense love of peonies. As I can not grow these in SoCa (even though I have told I can and I will try them - let me tell you - in the near future, I only have 6 right now that are new to me), I plant every one that I can get. I must have now 30-35 ones some are duplicates. I love the tree peonies and thanks to a very late spring (or rather a very screwy spring) I got to see all of the tree peonies bloom. They are normally finished before I get there. Many are too young to really flower well yet but a few put out one to three flowers just to show off. The herbaceous ones were not quite ready to pop before I left. I also have planted a whole heck of a lot of different iris. And I will be increasing that planting this fall with more Japanese hybrids and more species (sources are welcome). Well, I think that I have blabbed on here enough for now. OHHHH one more thing. I have a question for Dave - you mentioned about depth of planting increasing hardiness. The two Crinums above that I mentioned I planted this year are in a raised bed. I really planted them deep in the bed (2'+) but they are actually at about soil level in the overall scheme of things. They are about 1-3' in from the edge of the bed (which is merely piled up and not a made bed out of wood or other material). Would you think would be sufficient or should they be deeper? John Ingram jjingram@adelphia.net http://www.floralartistry.org/