To Tony , Diane and Jane, Thanks for your further help with Fritillaria pudica. I looked back on my sowing details and found that last year my seedlings appeared at the correct time in July and August. We have had strange weather this year with a cool moist summer then a very warm dry autumn with sudden onset of severe winter in June. Other seedlings have started in the wrong season - a pot full of 3rd year Trillium albidum seedlings appeared in autumn - they are now a bit sad. Lots of winter flowering bulbs have come early. The F pudica seedlings whose origin I am certain of are from NARGS seedex and are listed below. Fritillaria pudica - Baker Co, Oregon Fritillaria pudica - WA Cascades Fritillaria pudica- Yakima Co WA Jane you mentioned coastal Californian populations would suit my climate best ,so it seem these are probably not the best for me. I realised yesterday I have a pot of 2nd year Frit viridea seedlings up with nice strong second leaves. Cheers Rob