David this is exactly the problem I had on reading your first worthy effort which clearly, along with this try, has been mangled during the routing via different computers / programmes which is why I took some care to be, possible on reflection,overly laboured with mine just sent off ahead of yours incoming. Iain ----- Original Message ----- From: <pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org> To: <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 6:21 PM Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 68, Issue 18 > Send pbs mailing list submissions to > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > pbs-owner@lists.ibiblio.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of pbs digest..." > > > List-Post:<mailto:pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> > List-Archive:<http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist/> > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: to italicize or not to italicize... (David Ehrlich) > 2. Re: to italicize or not to italicize...(final attempt) > (David Ehrlich) > 3. Re: to italicize or not to italicize... (Jim McKenney) > 4. Re: to italicize or not to italicize... (Jim McKenney) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 09:21:41 -0700 (PDT) > From: David Ehrlich <idavide@sbcglobal.net> > Subject: Re: [pbs] to italicize or not to italicize... > To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> > Message-ID: <184743.54404.qm@web81006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 > > Wow!? I look at the E-mail I sent, and all the italices are gone.? So, > also is the multiplcation symbol for the hybrid.? I'll try resendin it > using undescores for the italicization -- maybe that'll get through. > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: David Ehrlich <idavide@sbcglobal.net> > To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> > Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 8:58:51 AM > Subject: Re: [pbs] to italicize or not to italicize... > > My bible on Plant Systematics gives the ICBN recommendations, which are > that both the generic and specific epithets should be italicized.? The > authority is not italicized.? If you are referring to a variety or > subspecies, the ?var.? or ?subsp.? is not italicized, but the following > epithet is, e.g., > ????????? Lyonia ligustrina (L.) DC. var. filiosiflora (Michx.) Furlow > ? > Higher taxa are always capitalized; they are generally italicized by > Europeans, but not by Americans. > ? > Cultivar names should have a capital initial and either be included in > single quotes or preceded by ?cv.?? They are never italicized. > ? > Hybrid names are preceded by x, and are italicized. > > David Ehrlich > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/ > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 09:34:59 -0700 (PDT) > From: David Ehrlich <idavide@sbcglobal.net> > Subject: Re: [pbs] to italicize or not to italicize...(final attempt) > To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> > Message-ID: <139188.91586.qm@web81001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > I'm sure that somewhere along the way, my response has been converted to > plain text.? the Italicized wods in my letter were?Lyonia ligustrina and > filiosiflora.? Also?the x for hybrids is not the letter ex, but a > multiplication sign; it?should not have serifs, and it should be centered > with the text, not?on the line like an alphabetic letter. > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 12:39:10 -0400 > From: "Jim McKenney" <jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com> > Subject: Re: [pbs] to italicize or not to italicize... > To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> > Message-ID: <001001c91751$957ee140$2f01a8c0@Library> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Hi, Jennifer > > > > The two responses we've have so far go along way to answering your > questions; I'll just add a bit more here because the recommendations in > the > earlier responses are those formulated for use in technical or more formal > publications. I edit the local rock garden chapter?s bulletin, and I > wrestle > with questions of this sort all the time. Our membership includes several > professional taxonomists who are concerned that anything they publish in > our > bulletin should appear seemly in the event that one of their professional > colleagues should see it. At the other end of the spectrum, our membership > includes many gardeners who probably throw away plant labels as soon as > they > get home from the source, and who don?t know the names of most of what > they > grow. I?m known to be a bit of a martinet when it comes to proper labels. > And I?m perceived as speaking only ?gardener?s Latin?. At a recent meeting > I > used a vernacular name, and several heads turned at once; and one of them > actually said ?I?ve never heard you use a vernacular name before!?. > > > > Keep in mind that this is not a matter of right and wrong - it's a matter > of > style. Just as there is no universally accepted authority for the grammar > of > American English, so there is no universally accepted authority for these > matters. > > > > And just as the majority of people spend more time and money to be stylish > in their dress, hair and politics (and how ?bout them Tina Fey glasses!) > than they do to acquire refined grammatical sensibilities, the majority of > editors don't want to seem to be a Doofus (take that, spell check!) and > bend > to prevailing practice in these matters. > > > > Languages change, and our language is changing a lot right now. > > > > Here's the way I would treat the part of your inquiry which is not > directly > addressed in the responses so far. You wrote > > > > "He refers to Bearded Iris and Oncocyclus Iris. Are these considered > scientific names or common names? I did not italicize hybrid tulips, > hyacinths, and crocus - should I have? Meanwhile, I did italicize Lilium, > Muscari, and Tigridia. Right or wrong?" > > > > I would not capitalize or italicize either word in "Bearded Iris" or > "Oncocyclus Iris". To my mind they are pseudoscientific common names. > However, if those terms were in reference to another publication cited in > the paper at hand where they were capitalized, then follow the format used > in the other publication. > > > > The words "tulips" and "hyacinths" are not Latin: they are the plural > forms > of words now commonly accepted as English. The word crocus poses a > different > challenge: there is a perfectly good English word "crocus" which looks > just > like the genus name of the plant in question, Crocus (italicized). Current > practice in many circles is to regard all genus names as potential English > names, with the difference that in their English avatar they do not have a > capitalized initial letter. But watch out here: I would say that our job > as > editors is to understand what the writer means and to convey that meaning. > Does the writer mean "the genus Crocus" or does the writer mean "crocus" > in > the vernacular sense? Any editorial changes to the writer's usage should > reflect the writer's intentions, not blind adherence to some preconceived > "rule". > > > > If you're doing the writing yourself and are uncomfortable with the > inclusion of what seems to be the same word used to convey two separate > meanings, you can emphasize the difference by using the plural of the > English form: crocuses won't be confused with Crocus (italicized and with > a > capital initial letter). > > > > If you agree with that and understand it, then that should answer your > question about "Lilium, Muscari, and Tigridia". In other words, depending > on > what meaning is to be conveyed, those words can be printed in lower case > letters without italics (and made plural just to avoid any ambiguity) or > can > be printed in italics with a capitalized initial letter (when they are > shorthand for the full expression "the genus Xus"). > > > > > > > > > > > > Jim McKenney > > jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com > > Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871? North, 77.09829? West, USDA > zone > 7 > > My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com/ > > BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ > > > > Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS > > Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org/ > > > > Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 13:03:59 -0400 > From: "Jim McKenney" <jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com> > Subject: Re: [pbs] to italicize or not to italicize... > To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> > Message-ID: <001801c91755$0e67ea40$2f01a8c0@Library> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Well, David, welcome to email world. I have long regretted the lack of > italics capability on this forum - it makes discussions such as this one a > lot more complicated. > > > > But I'm glad you had this experience: I wanted to start a discussion of > the > role of italics in print media. > > > > I've always assumed that the practice of italicizing scientific names is a > hold over from the old more general practice of italicizing text in a > foreign language. When I was a kid, it was not unusual to see foreign > words > italicized. The practice has all but died out in my local newspaper, The > Washington Post. I've complained about this to them, and I've complained > about the practice of using words and phrases from who-knows-what language > without explanation of the meaning or the pronunciation. > > > > The relevance, if any, of all of this to the present thread has to do with > the treatment of taxa above the rank of genus and species. I've seen a > call > for the italicization of all such taxa. For most of us, that would mean > that > in addition to italicizing the genus and species, we would italicize the > family name, too (and also italicize the names of orders and so on in the > unlikely event that we would use them). > > > > What interests me about this is that the print media in general seem to be > taking one direction while garden writing seems to be taking another. In > some samples of my own writing I italicized all taxa: the result was a > very > busy page, like one with too many exclamation points. I can understand why > newspapers are shying away from the extensive use of italics (and isn't it > ironic that this is happening when italics are so easily done in word > processors). But I wish they would give some thought to providing > definitions and pronunciation guides to these words. Then again, I wish > more > gardening publications would do the same (and not with those phony "as if > they were English words" pronunciations - I don't need their help in > pronouncing my own language). > > > > > > Jim McKenney > > jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com > > Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871? North, 77.09829? West, USDA > zone > 7 > > My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com/ > > BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ > > > > Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS > > Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org/ > > > > Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > End of pbs Digest, Vol 68, Issue 18 > *********************************** -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for home users. 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