hmm. I guess not. Mr. Kelly M. Irvin 10850 Hodge Ln Gravette, AR 72736 USA 479-787-9958 USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6a/b http://www.irvincentral.com/ Kelly Irvin wrote: > This is a test... > > /Lycoris/ /radiata/ > > /Lycoris radiata/ > > /So, does this mean we can now post an entire message in italics so as > to make it feel more like handwriting, and, therefore, more personal?/ > > Mr. Kelly M. Irvin > 10850 Hodge Ln > Gravette, AR 72736 > USA > 479-787-9958 > USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6a/b > > http://www.irvincentral.com/ > > > > iain@auchgourishbotanicgarden.org wrote: > >> David this is exactly the problem I had on reading your first worthy effort >> which clearly, along with this try, has been mangled during the routing via >> different computers / programmes which is why I took some care to be, >> possible on reflection,overly laboured with mine just sent off ahead of >> yours incoming. >> >> Iain >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: <pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org> >> To: <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> >> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 6:21 PM >> Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 68, Issue 18 >> >> >> >> >>> Send pbs mailing list submissions to >>> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >>> >>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >>> http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >>> pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org >>> >>> You can reach the person managing the list at >>> pbs-owner@lists.ibiblio.org >>> >>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >>> than "Re: Contents of pbs digest..." >>> >>> >>> List-Post:<mailto:pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> >>> List-Archive:<http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist/> >>> >>> Today's Topics: >>> >>> 1. Re: to italicize or not to italicize... (David Ehrlich) >>> 2. Re: to italicize or not to italicize...(final attempt) >>> (David Ehrlich) >>> 3. Re: to italicize or not to italicize... (Jim McKenney) >>> 4. Re: to italicize or not to italicize... (Jim McKenney) >>> >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> Message: 1 >>> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 09:21:41 -0700 (PDT) >>> From: David Ehrlich <idavide@sbcglobal.net> >>> Subject: Re: [pbs] to italicize or not to italicize... >>> To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> >>> Message-ID: <184743.54404.qm@web81006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 >>> >>> Wow!? I look at the E-mail I sent, and all the italices are gone.? So, >>> also is the multiplcation symbol for the hybrid.? I'll try resendin it >>> using undescores for the italicization -- maybe that'll get through. >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ---- >>> From: David Ehrlich <idavide@sbcglobal.net> >>> To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> >>> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 8:58:51 AM >>> Subject: Re: [pbs] to italicize or not to italicize... >>> >>> My bible on Plant Systematics gives the ICBN recommendations, which are >>> that both the generic and specific epithets should be italicized.? The >>> authority is not italicized.? If you are referring to a variety or >>> subspecies, the ?var.? or ?subsp.? is not italicized, but the following >>> epithet is, e.g., >>> ????????? Lyonia ligustrina (L.) DC. var. filiosiflora (Michx.) Furlow >>> ? >>> Higher taxa are always capitalized; they are generally italicized by >>> Europeans, but not by Americans. >>> ? >>> Cultivar names should have a capital initial and either be included in >>> single quotes or preceded by ?cv.?? They are never italicized. >>> ? >>> Hybrid names are preceded by x, and are italicized. >>> >>> David Ehrlich >>> _______________________________________________ >>> pbs mailing list >>> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >>> http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >>> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/ >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Message: 2 >>> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 09:34:59 -0700 (PDT) >>> From: David Ehrlich <idavide@sbcglobal.net> >>> Subject: Re: [pbs] to italicize or not to italicize...(final attempt) >>> To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> >>> Message-ID: <139188.91586.qm@web81001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 >>> >>> I'm sure that somewhere along the way, my response has been converted to >>> plain text.? the Italicized wods in my letter were?Lyonia ligustrina and >>> filiosiflora.? Also?the x for hybrids is not the letter ex, but a >>> multiplication sign; it?should not have serifs, and it should be centered >>> with the text, not?on the line like an alphabetic letter. >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Message: 3 >>> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 12:39:10 -0400 >>> From: "Jim McKenney" <jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com> >>> Subject: Re: [pbs] to italicize or not to italicize... >>> To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> >>> Message-ID: <001001c91751$957ee140$2f01a8c0@Library> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >>> >>> Hi, Jennifer >>> >>> >>> >>> The two responses we've have so far go along way to answering your >>> questions; I'll just add a bit more here because the recommendations in >>> the >>> earlier responses are those formulated for use in technical or more formal >>> publications. I edit the local rock garden chapter?s bulletin, and I >>> wrestle >>> with questions of this sort all the time. Our membership includes several >>> professional taxonomists who are concerned that anything they publish in >>> our >>> bulletin should appear seemly in the event that one of their professional >>> colleagues should see it. At the other end of the spectrum, our membership >>> includes many gardeners who probably throw away plant labels as soon as >>> they >>> get home from the source, and who don?t know the names of most of what >>> they >>> grow. I?m known to be a bit of a martinet when it comes to proper labels. >>> And I?m perceived as speaking only ?gardener?s Latin?. At a recent meeting >>> I >>> used a vernacular name, and several heads turned at once; and one of them >>> actually said ?I?ve never heard you use a vernacular name before!?. >>> >>> >>> >>> Keep in mind that this is not a matter of right and wrong - it's a matter >>> of >>> style. Just as there is no universally accepted authority for the grammar >>> of >>> American English, so there is no universally accepted authority for these >>> matters. >>> >>> >>> >>> And just as the majority of people spend more time and money to be stylish >>> in their dress, hair and politics (and how ?bout them Tina Fey glasses!) >>> than they do to acquire refined grammatical sensibilities, the majority of >>> editors don't want to seem to be a Doofus (take that, spell check!) and >>> bend >>> to prevailing practice in these matters. >>> >>> >>> >>> Languages change, and our language is changing a lot right now. >>> >>> >>> >>> Here's the way I would treat the part of your inquiry which is not >>> directly >>> addressed in the responses so far. You wrote >>> >>> >>> >>> "He refers to Bearded Iris and Oncocyclus Iris. Are these considered >>> scientific names or common names? I did not italicize hybrid tulips, >>> hyacinths, and crocus - should I have? Meanwhile, I did italicize Lilium, >>> Muscari, and Tigridia. Right or wrong?" >>> >>> >>> >>> I would not capitalize or italicize either word in "Bearded Iris" or >>> "Oncocyclus Iris". To my mind they are pseudoscientific common names. >>> However, if those terms were in reference to another publication cited in >>> the paper at hand where they were capitalized, then follow the format used >>> in the other publication. >>> >>> >>> >>> The words "tulips" and "hyacinths" are not Latin: they are the plural >>> forms >>> of words now commonly accepted as English. The word crocus poses a >>> different >>> challenge: there is a perfectly good English word "crocus" which looks >>> just >>> like the genus name of the plant in question, Crocus (italicized). Current >>> practice in many circles is to regard all genus names as potential English >>> names, with the difference that in their English avatar they do not have a >>> capitalized initial letter. But watch out here: I would say that our job >>> as >>> editors is to understand what the writer means and to convey that meaning. >>> Does the writer mean "the genus Crocus" or does the writer mean "crocus" >>> in >>> the vernacular sense? Any editorial changes to the writer's usage should >>> reflect the writer's intentions, not blind adherence to some preconceived >>> "rule". >>> >>> >>> >>> If you're doing the writing yourself and are uncomfortable with the >>> inclusion of what seems to be the same word used to convey two separate >>> meanings, you can emphasize the difference by using the plural of the >>> English form: crocuses won't be confused with Crocus (italicized and with >>> a >>> capital initial letter). >>> >>> >>> >>> If you agree with that and understand it, then that should answer your >>> question about "Lilium, Muscari, and Tigridia". In other words, depending >>> on >>> what meaning is to be conveyed, those words can be printed in lower case >>> letters without italics (and made plural just to avoid any ambiguity) or >>> can >>> be printed in italics with a capitalized initial letter (when they are >>> shorthand for the full expression "the genus Xus"). >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Jim McKenney >>> >>> jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com >>> >>> Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871? North, 77.09829? West, USDA >>> zone >>> 7 >>> >>> My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com/ >>> >>> BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ >>> >>> >>> >>> Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS >>> >>> Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org/ >>> >>> >>> >>> Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org/ >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Message: 4 >>> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 13:03:59 -0400 >>> From: "Jim McKenney" <jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com> >>> Subject: Re: [pbs] to italicize or not to italicize... >>> To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> >>> Message-ID: <001801c91755$0e67ea40$2f01a8c0@Library> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >>> >>> Well, David, welcome to email world. I have long regretted the lack of >>> italics capability on this forum - it makes discussions such as this one a >>> lot more complicated. >>> >>> >>> >>> But I'm glad you had this experience: I wanted to start a discussion of >>> the >>> role of italics in print media. >>> >>> >>> >>> I've always assumed that the practice of italicizing scientific names is a >>> hold over from the old more general practice of italicizing text in a >>> foreign language. When I was a kid, it was not unusual to see foreign >>> words >>> italicized. The practice has all but died out in my local newspaper, The >>> Washington Post. I've complained about this to them, and I've complained >>> about the practice of using words and phrases from who-knows-what language >>> without explanation of the meaning or the pronunciation. >>> >>> >>> >>> The relevance, if any, of all of this to the present thread has to do with >>> the treatment of taxa above the rank of genus and species. I've seen a >>> call >>> for the italicization of all such taxa. For most of us, that would mean >>> that >>> in addition to italicizing the genus and species, we would italicize the >>> family name, too (and also italicize the names of orders and so on in the >>> unlikely event that we would use them). >>> >>> >>> >>> What interests me about this is that the print media in general seem to be >>> taking one direction while garden writing seems to be taking another. In >>> some samples of my own writing I italicized all taxa: the result was a >>> very >>> busy page, like one with too many exclamation points. I can understand why >>> newspapers are shying away from the extensive use of italics (and isn't it >>> ironic that this is happening when italics are so easily done in word >>> processors). But I wish they would give some thought to providing >>> definitions and pronunciation guides to these words. Then again, I wish >>> more >>> gardening publications would do the same (and not with those phony "as if >>> they were English words" pronunciations - I don't need their help in >>> pronouncing my own language). >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Jim McKenney >>> >>> jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com >>> >>> Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871? North, 77.09829? West, USDA >>> zone >>> 7 >>> >>> My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com/ >>> >>> BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ >>> >>> >>> >>> Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS >>> >>> Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org/ >>> >>> >>> >>> Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org/ >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> pbs mailing list >>> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >>> http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >>> >>> >>> End of pbs Digest, Vol 68, Issue 18 >>> *********************************** >>> >>> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/ > >