This is a test... /Lycoris/ /radiata/ /Lycoris radiata/ /So, does this mean we can now post an entire message in italics so as to make it feel more like handwriting, and, therefore, more personal?/ Mr. Kelly M. Irvin 10850 Hodge Ln Gravette, AR 72736 USA 479-787-9958 USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6a/b http://www.irvincentral.com/ iain@auchgourishbotanicgarden.org wrote: > David this is exactly the problem I had on reading your first worthy effort > which clearly, along with this try, has been mangled during the routing via > different computers / programmes which is why I took some care to be, > possible on reflection,overly laboured with mine just sent off ahead of > yours incoming. > > Iain > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org> > To: <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> > Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 6:21 PM > Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 68, Issue 18 > > > >> Send pbs mailing list submissions to >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> pbs-owner@lists.ibiblio.org >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of pbs digest..." >> >> >> List-Post:<mailto:pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> >> List-Archive:<http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist/> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Re: to italicize or not to italicize... (David Ehrlich) >> 2. Re: to italicize or not to italicize...(final attempt) >> (David Ehrlich) >> 3. Re: to italicize or not to italicize... (Jim McKenney) >> 4. Re: to italicize or not to italicize... (Jim McKenney) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 09:21:41 -0700 (PDT) >> From: David Ehrlich <idavide@sbcglobal.net> >> Subject: Re: [pbs] to italicize or not to italicize... >> To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> >> Message-ID: <184743.54404.qm@web81006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 >> >> Wow!? I look at the E-mail I sent, and all the italices are gone.? So, >> also is the multiplcation symbol for the hybrid.? I'll try resendin it >> using undescores for the italicization -- maybe that'll get through. >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ---- >> From: David Ehrlich <idavide@sbcglobal.net> >> To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> >> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 8:58:51 AM >> Subject: Re: [pbs] to italicize or not to italicize... >> >> My bible on Plant Systematics gives the ICBN recommendations, which are >> that both the generic and specific epithets should be italicized.? The >> authority is not italicized.? If you are referring to a variety or >> subspecies, the ?var.? or ?subsp.? is not italicized, but the following >> epithet is, e.g., >> ????????? Lyonia ligustrina (L.) DC. var. filiosiflora (Michx.) Furlow >> ? >> Higher taxa are always capitalized; they are generally italicized by >> Europeans, but not by Americans. >> ? >> Cultivar names should have a capital initial and either be included in >> single quotes or preceded by ?cv.?? They are never italicized. >> ? >> Hybrid names are preceded by x, and are italicized. >> >> David Ehrlich >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/ >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 09:34:59 -0700 (PDT) >> From: David Ehrlich <idavide@sbcglobal.net> >> Subject: Re: [pbs] to italicize or not to italicize...(final attempt) >> To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> >> Message-ID: <139188.91586.qm@web81001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 >> >> I'm sure that somewhere along the way, my response has been converted to >> plain text.? the Italicized wods in my letter were?Lyonia ligustrina and >> filiosiflora.? Also?the x for hybrids is not the letter ex, but a >> multiplication sign; it?should not have serifs, and it should be centered >> with the text, not?on the line like an alphabetic letter. >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 3 >> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 12:39:10 -0400 >> From: "Jim McKenney" <jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com> >> Subject: Re: [pbs] to italicize or not to italicize... >> To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> >> Message-ID: <001001c91751$957ee140$2f01a8c0@Library> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >> >> Hi, Jennifer >> >> >> >> The two responses we've have so far go along way to answering your >> questions; I'll just add a bit more here because the recommendations in >> the >> earlier responses are those formulated for use in technical or more formal >> publications. I edit the local rock garden chapter?s bulletin, and I >> wrestle >> with questions of this sort all the time. Our membership includes several >> professional taxonomists who are concerned that anything they publish in >> our >> bulletin should appear seemly in the event that one of their professional >> colleagues should see it. At the other end of the spectrum, our membership >> includes many gardeners who probably throw away plant labels as soon as >> they >> get home from the source, and who don?t know the names of most of what >> they >> grow. I?m known to be a bit of a martinet when it comes to proper labels. >> And I?m perceived as speaking only ?gardener?s Latin?. At a recent meeting >> I >> used a vernacular name, and several heads turned at once; and one of them >> actually said ?I?ve never heard you use a vernacular name before!?. >> >> >> >> Keep in mind that this is not a matter of right and wrong - it's a matter >> of >> style. Just as there is no universally accepted authority for the grammar >> of >> American English, so there is no universally accepted authority for these >> matters. >> >> >> >> And just as the majority of people spend more time and money to be stylish >> in their dress, hair and politics (and how ?bout them Tina Fey glasses!) >> than they do to acquire refined grammatical sensibilities, the majority of >> editors don't want to seem to be a Doofus (take that, spell check!) and >> bend >> to prevailing practice in these matters. >> >> >> >> Languages change, and our language is changing a lot right now. >> >> >> >> Here's the way I would treat the part of your inquiry which is not >> directly >> addressed in the responses so far. You wrote >> >> >> >> "He refers to Bearded Iris and Oncocyclus Iris. Are these considered >> scientific names or common names? I did not italicize hybrid tulips, >> hyacinths, and crocus - should I have? Meanwhile, I did italicize Lilium, >> Muscari, and Tigridia. Right or wrong?" >> >> >> >> I would not capitalize or italicize either word in "Bearded Iris" or >> "Oncocyclus Iris". To my mind they are pseudoscientific common names. >> However, if those terms were in reference to another publication cited in >> the paper at hand where they were capitalized, then follow the format used >> in the other publication. >> >> >> >> The words "tulips" and "hyacinths" are not Latin: they are the plural >> forms >> of words now commonly accepted as English. The word crocus poses a >> different >> challenge: there is a perfectly good English word "crocus" which looks >> just >> like the genus name of the plant in question, Crocus (italicized). Current >> practice in many circles is to regard all genus names as potential English >> names, with the difference that in their English avatar they do not have a >> capitalized initial letter. But watch out here: I would say that our job >> as >> editors is to understand what the writer means and to convey that meaning. >> Does the writer mean "the genus Crocus" or does the writer mean "crocus" >> in >> the vernacular sense? Any editorial changes to the writer's usage should >> reflect the writer's intentions, not blind adherence to some preconceived >> "rule". >> >> >> >> If you're doing the writing yourself and are uncomfortable with the >> inclusion of what seems to be the same word used to convey two separate >> meanings, you can emphasize the difference by using the plural of the >> English form: crocuses won't be confused with Crocus (italicized and with >> a >> capital initial letter). >> >> >> >> If you agree with that and understand it, then that should answer your >> question about "Lilium, Muscari, and Tigridia". In other words, depending >> on >> what meaning is to be conveyed, those words can be printed in lower case >> letters without italics (and made plural just to avoid any ambiguity) or >> can >> be printed in italics with a capitalized initial letter (when they are >> shorthand for the full expression "the genus Xus"). >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Jim McKenney >> >> jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com >> >> Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871? North, 77.09829? West, USDA >> zone >> 7 >> >> My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com/ >> >> BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ >> >> >> >> Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS >> >> Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org/ >> >> >> >> Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org/ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 4 >> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 13:03:59 -0400 >> From: "Jim McKenney" <jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com> >> Subject: Re: [pbs] to italicize or not to italicize... >> To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> >> Message-ID: <001801c91755$0e67ea40$2f01a8c0@Library> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >> >> Well, David, welcome to email world. I have long regretted the lack of >> italics capability on this forum - it makes discussions such as this one a >> lot more complicated. >> >> >> >> But I'm glad you had this experience: I wanted to start a discussion of >> the >> role of italics in print media. >> >> >> >> I've always assumed that the practice of italicizing scientific names is a >> hold over from the old more general practice of italicizing text in a >> foreign language. When I was a kid, it was not unusual to see foreign >> words >> italicized. The practice has all but died out in my local newspaper, The >> Washington Post. I've complained about this to them, and I've complained >> about the practice of using words and phrases from who-knows-what language >> without explanation of the meaning or the pronunciation. >> >> >> >> The relevance, if any, of all of this to the present thread has to do with >> the treatment of taxa above the rank of genus and species. I've seen a >> call >> for the italicization of all such taxa. For most of us, that would mean >> that >> in addition to italicizing the genus and species, we would italicize the >> family name, too (and also italicize the names of orders and so on in the >> unlikely event that we would use them). >> >> >> >> What interests me about this is that the print media in general seem to be >> taking one direction while garden writing seems to be taking another. In >> some samples of my own writing I italicized all taxa: the result was a >> very >> busy page, like one with too many exclamation points. I can understand why >> newspapers are shying away from the extensive use of italics (and isn't it >> ironic that this is happening when italics are so easily done in word >> processors). But I wish they would give some thought to providing >> definitions and pronunciation guides to these words. Then again, I wish >> more >> gardening publications would do the same (and not with those phony "as if >> they were English words" pronunciations - I don't need their help in >> pronouncing my own language). >> >> >> >> >> >> Jim McKenney >> >> jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com >> >> Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871? North, 77.09829? West, USDA >> zone >> 7 >> >> My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com/ >> >> BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ >> >> >> >> Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS >> >> Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org/ >> >> >> >> Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org/ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> >> >> End of pbs Digest, Vol 68, Issue 18 >> *********************************** >> > > >