The Wiki, babbling on, and Crinum x 'Burgundy'

It happened again. I was just going to peek at the PBS Wiki Crinum images.
Of course, I knew better. Two or three hours later I was still "just
peeking." Jay and Alani have done excellent work. But, there are other
contributors. Now I've got a note to contact Rogan Roth and ask about
Crinum buphanoides (Rogan, if you read this, send me a private email if you
are inclined).

Of course Alberto Grossi's photos are wonderful, full of detail and color.
And, I now recall that I promised to order something for Alberto over a year
ago and never did (sorry!).

The PBS Wiki is spell-binding. Even the bulb families I tend to ignore in
my garden can capture me for long periods as I browse the Wiki. In addition
to the wonderful photographs, and the various shots (side, top, aspect, long
distance, close-up, etc.), the Wiki provides good, solid information. Even
if the information is anecdotal it is information, and such starting points
are helpful in making estimatates about how hardy a bulb might be, or what
culture it requires, or where to find it, etc.

This is all leading somewhere; recently someone asked about Crinum x
'Burgundy' and I checked what was available on the PBS Wiki. Then, I looked
over my own notes on 'Burgundy' and find that Mr. Hannibal identifies it as
a specific selection of C. x worsleyii (C. scabrum x C. moorei). Marcelle
Sheppard has always had a single clone of ' Burgundy' that she has used in
breeding. While 'Burgundy' seldom sets seed, one of it's offspring ('Lady
Chameleon', i.e., Seedling No. 1) produces boatloads off seed.

However, there are a number of 'Burdungy'-type plants to be found in the
South and I wonder if they are C. x worsleyii. Not all of them have the
'Ellen Bosanquet' look, but all seem simlar. Some may have a bit darker
color, but perhaps they were only growing in a shadier position or blooming
earlier in the year.

When you consider the taxonomic doubtfulness of Crinum scabrum, it is not so
clear that C. x worsleyii is a proper taxon. But, for gardening purposes C.
x worsleyii makes perfect sense to me.

A friend of Marcelle's (Margie Brown) has what Marcelle calls 'Burgundy' No.
2, it is essentiall identical to Marcelle's Burgundy, but it reblooms a bit
in the fall. On the other hand, the "real" 'Burgundy' (Marcelle's
'Burgundy) sometimes throws a few white petals, and one bulb offset
produces completely white flowers.

The varies 'Burgundy'-types that I have encountered are darkef of flower
than 'Ellen Bosanquet', produce more flowers, and seem to make larger plants
(larger and more luxurious leaves).

LINK: C x 'Worsleyi'
http://marcellescrinums.com/html/crinum-species/…

LINK: Sheppard C. x 'Burgundy' Hybrids
http://marcellescrinums.com/html/…

----- Original Message -----
From: <pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org>
To: <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2007 11:00 AM
Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 54, Issue 23

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Today's Topics:

1. Re: Asclepias (totototo@telus.net)
2. Galanthus peshmenii hardiness (John T Lonsdale)
3. Re: Galanthus peshmenii hardiness (Jim McKenney)
4. Re: Galanthus peshmenii hardiness (Jane McGary)
5. Re: Galanthus peshmenii hardiness (John Grimshaw)
6. Re: Galanthus peshmenii hardiness (Jan Agoston)
7. Bundrandt Crinum hybrids (jyourch@nc.rr.com)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 11:00:27 -0700
From: totototo@telus.net
Subject: Re: [pbs] Asclepias
To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID: <20070724181423.D8QT2RPAWJ@priv-edtnaa05.telusplanet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

On 24 Jul 07, at 7:56, Mary Sue Ittner wrote:

California has something beautiful species of this genus and I'm
wondering how many of them might be geophytes. A couple I have tried
to grow in my garden, but haven't gotten to bloom yet are deciduous
and late to come back in the spring. I've looked at least one of these
when dormant and I could actually see something that looked like it
had a tuber to me but Jepson describes them as annuals, perennials, or
shrubs. There was a really gorgeous one I photographed in Southern
California, Asclepias californica, described as perennial. I'd add it
to the wiki if I thought is qualified.

Jepson is mixing its metaphors somewhat. The real contrasts are
between woody plants, semi-woody plants and non-woody plants; between
annual, biennial, and perennial plants; and between geophytes and non-
geophytes; and between evergreen and deciduous plants, which is
closely correlated with the distinction between herbaceous and non-
herbaceous.

Geophytes include bulbous, rhizomatous, tuberous, and cormous plants.

Our usual bulbs are non-woody, perennial, geophytic, but may be
evergreen or deciduous.

Your milkweed is probably a non-woody deciduous perennial with fleshy
roots that ambiguate the distinction between geophyte and non-
geophyte.

Somewhere in all this mess is the distinction between trees, shrubs,
and sub-shrubs.

As usual, Mother Nature laughs at us humans trying to pigeonhole Her
infinite variety of creations and makes sure She has plenty of gray
area plants on board to frustrate our tidy little schemes.

I think we better all go put icepacks on our throbbing brains, no?

--
RFW

"It's MY computer, Mr Gates. Stop trying to tell me what it will/won't
do."
<http://theregister.co.uk/2007/07/…>

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 15:09:22 -0400
From: "John T Lonsdale" <john@johnlonsdale.net>
Subject: [pbs] Galanthus peshmenii hardiness
To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <00fa01c7ce26$25255070$6801a8c0@XPS400>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

In writing this I acknowledge, at least temporarily and for the purposes
of
this message, that there could be two different snowdrops.

Galanthus reginae-olgae does fine outside here, flowering and building up
slowly. I have several accessions of Galanthus peshmenii that have been
in
pots for the past few years because I heard that it might be more tender
than G. r-o. Is there any basis to this purported lack of hardiness or am
I
safe planting them outside?

I also have several pots of Scilla vincentina - it does just fine but I'd
love to get it into the garden. Is it likely to survive here? I don't
mind
burned leaves as long as it flowers OK.

Many thanks,

John

John T Lonsdale PhD
407 Edgewood Drive,
Exton, Pennsylvania 19341, USA

Home: 610 594 9232
Cell: 484 678 9856
Fax: 801 327 1266

Visit "Edgewood" - The Lonsdale Garden at
<http://www.edgewoodgardens.net/>
http://www.edgewoodgardens.net/

USDA Zone 6b

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 16:36:18 -0400
From: "Jim McKenney" <jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com>
Subject: Re: [pbs] Galanthus peshmenii hardiness
To: <john@johnlonsdale.net>, "'Pacific Bulb Society'"
<pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <000601c7ce32$4b3687a0$2f01a8c0@Library>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I can't answer John Lonsdale's query about the hardiness of Galanthus
peshmenii.

However, I'll give in to temptation and make some comments about the
hardiness of Galanthus reginae-olgae. Although I know of several growers
here in the greater Washington, D.C. area who have successfully
established
this species as a garden plant in recent years, I grow my current
accessions
in a cold frame. Several acquisitions of this species in the mid '80s
proved
to be impermanent outside. Impermanent as in "did not survive the winter".
When my current stocks bulk up, I'll try some in the garden - but keep
some
reserved for cold frame culture.

I also grow Hyacinthoides vincentina (aka Scilla vincentina and a few
other
combinations). This, too, for now is in a cold frame, so I'll be as
interested as John in any comments about its hardiness.

Jim McKenney
jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com

Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where we'll soon be cactus
country if we don't get some rain.

My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com/

BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/

Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS
Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org/

Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org/

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 17:01:56 -0700
From: Jane McGary <janemcgary@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [pbs] Galanthus peshmenii hardiness
To: john@johnlonsdale.net, Pacific Bulb Society
<pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20070724165828.02402d10@mail.earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

John Lonsdale asked about winter hardiness of Galanthus peshmenii (a
fall-blooming species from southwestern Turkey) and Scilla vincentina (I
think the correct form of the name may be S. vincentii? I got it under
both
versions at different times).

I'm pretty sure G. peshmenii would be at least as winter-hardy as G.
reginae-olgae. One thing I noticed about G. peshmenii in the wild is that
it grows in extremely well-drained positions, such as in steep cut banks
and even in the detritus on top of big boulders. I hope I didn't kill my
pot of it by bringing it into the sunroom last winter when we had a very
hard freeze in December; I'll turn it out soon and find out.

S. vincentii/vincentina does fine in my bulb frames where it gets down to
20 degrees F sometimes, and it self-sows between the pots too. I think
it's
a good candidate for the open garden in moderate climates and will try
some
there myself this year.

Jane McGary
Northwestern Oregon, USA

------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 05:15:31 +0100
From: "John Grimshaw" <j.grimshaw@virgin.net>
Subject: Re: [pbs] Galanthus peshmenii hardiness
To: "Pacific Bulb Society" <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <001301c7ce72$718a6f80$0201a8c0@John>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original

I have never seen Galanthus peshmenii thriving outdoors in England and
regard it as less hardy than G. reginae-olgae.

John Grimshaw

Dr John M. Grimshaw
Sycamore Cottage
Colesbourne
Nr Cheltenham
Gloucestershire GL53 9NP

Tel. 01242 870567

COLESBOURNE PARK OPEN DAYS 2007
Easter Monday 9 April, Arboretum Weekend 15-16 September
Gates open 1pm, last entry 4 pm
website: http://www.colesbournegardens.org.uk/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jane McGary" <janemcgary@earthlink.net>
To: <john@johnlonsdale.net>; "Pacific Bulb Society"
<pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2007 1:01 AM
Subject: Re: [pbs] Galanthus peshmenii hardiness

Jane McGary
Northwestern Oregon, USA

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------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 08:41:24 +0200
From: "Jan Agoston" <agoston.janos123@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [pbs] Galanthus peshmenii hardiness
To: john@johnlonsdale.net, "Pacific Bulb Society"
<pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID:
<3b9284cd0707242341i75635654s19d03a30379e98c3@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

I've heared, that G. peshmenii is hardy at least Z5a. Some collectors have
it here, but they are on sand not clay, which can modify hardiness.

Bye,
jani

2007/7/24, John T Lonsdale <john@johnlonsdale.net>:

In writing this I acknowledge, at least temporarily and for the purposes
of
this message, that there could be two different snowdrops.

I also have several pots of Scilla vincentina - it does just fine but I'd
love to get it into the garden. Is it likely to survive here? I don't
mind
burned leaves as long as it flowers OK.

Many thanks,

John

John T Lonsdale PhD
407 Edgewood Drive,
Exton, Pennsylvania 19341, USA

Home: 610 594 9232
Cell: 484 678 9856
Fax: 801 327 1266

Visit "Edgewood" - The Lonsdale Garden at <
http://www.edgewoodgardens.net/>
http://www.edgewoodgardens.net/

USDA Zone 6b

_______________________________________________
pbs mailing list
pbs@lists.ibiblio.org
http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php
http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/

------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 10:12:45 -0400
From: jyourch@nc.rr.com
Subject: [pbs] Bundrandt Crinum hybrids
To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID: <fe93e3d656755.56755fe93e3d6@southeast.rr.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Hi all,

We, Alani Davis and I, have been busy this year adding many Crinums
and Crinum hybrids to the Wiki. I'd like to point out two that I've
recently flowered and added, 'Birthday Party' and 'Jubilee', both
really nice Crinum hybrids made by Luther Bundrandt.

If you're interested in taking a look here are the links to the two
Bundrant Crinum hybrids:
<http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/…
irthdayParty>
<http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/…
wo#Jubilee>

And here are links to the main pages with tables that link to all of
the plants:
<http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/…>
<http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/…>

Enjoy,

Jay

------------------------------

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End of pbs Digest, Vol 54, Issue 23
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