Thank you to all that answered my plea. We live in a forest where the trees around us are 200 feet tall so the sun doea not hit the ground till about 10 am and the western trees start to shade at about 4 pm. I hope that is not too shady for them. I will separate them before next spring. I suppose i should wait till the foliage dies back. I have had to relearn horticulture since we moved here from Contra Costa County. The same rules do not apply here as there. I can not grow a lot of thing I brought along as there is not enough heat here for them, even though the frost free days are about the same here. There also is a lot more rain here, too. Sam