Leo, me again, I am sorry that I sort of got it confused. What I need is a bulb that will fit in my window that is less than 4'. It seems that the next size down is 2'. I want one of those narrow bulbs that is high out-put and energy efficient. If I look on line, is it a T5HO, 6,500 K color temperature that will give a lot of light in a small space and be highly efficient? I want a fixture with a reflector but rather narrow like in a fish tank set up, there are a number of hydroponic places here and pet [fish] stores as well. I can construct a wood frame to hold it up and have a long enough cord that I can plug it ion a timer. Where is Old Bridge, NJ, I am not familiar with it? I used to live in the Delaware Valley area of PA. I really appreciate you helping with this, I would spend hours trying to find what it is that I want. Anita R. On Sun, Mar 5, 2017 at 5:47 PM, Anita Roselle <anitaroselle@gmail.com> wrote: > Martin, I agree if I was growing tomatoes or seedlings that I wanted to > stay compact I would use them, just where they are not in front of my eyes > at the kitchen sink or in the living room. That is interesting that they > stimulate buds on freesias. I did not mean to say they were not effective. > I am new to this forum, I'a a long time plant person just now getting > interested in more bulbs. I have a greenhouse so most things are out there > and only a few in the house. > > On Sun, Mar 5, 2017 at 3:39 PM, Garak <garak@code-garak.de> wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> I can confirm the the 3 wavelength LED (Red, orange, blue) are quite >> effective for plant growth, e.g. tomatoes stay compact and freesias grow >> buds - I've yet to find a plant that is not compatible. I agree that those >> are too irritating for a living room or for enjoying flowers, but they do >> work well for seedlings in my study room next to the computer, and for >> those plants that need light over winter in a small side chamber. for me, >> they are the winner for price-performance ratio plus they seem realtively >> safe since they are "cold". >> Martin >> >> >> >> Am 05.03.2017 um 21:21 schrieb Anita Roselle: >> >>> Leo, I want to thank you for all the information on electric lighting. >>> >>> I used lights years ago when the best was 2 different fluorescent bulbs >>> in >>> a 2 bulb fixture. I now wish to put some light on my african violets that >>> do not get enough light in the winter to bloom. I have been befuddled >>> about >>> what to buy as there are so many choices, perhaps all of which I know >>> nothing about. You have spelled out for us what the different options are >>> and what they do. I now know what I need to look for and be confident >>> that >>> I am getting the best light at the best cost. I will look for a 2' >>> compact >>> fluorescent fixture with a single high-output T5 bulb. This is at the >>> window over my kitchen sink and I don't like the weird light I have now. >>> I did purchase from Amazon a clip on light, I wanted the clip, that has a >>> whole lot of small bulbs of different colors, I think red and blue, are >>> they LED's? They get the plants to bloom but the color is such that the >>> blooms to peoples eyes are not true to their real color, in fact they >>> look >>> weird. >>> >>> Thank again, >>> Anita R. >>> >>> On Sun, Mar 5, 2017 at 1:45 PM, Leo Martin <stnalpsoel@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> Norton asked about supplemental lighting for sprouting bulb seedlings >>>> indoors. >>>> >>>> Technology is changing rapidly. In 5-10 years light growers will >>>> probably >>>> be using LED lights, with only a few holdouts. LED lights are more >>>> expensive to buy today, but less expensive over their lifespan when >>>> considering the lower electricity usage. I have read analyses suggesting >>>> the break-even point is 6 months to 2 years. >>>> >>>> Light gardeners have abandoned incandescent bulbs. They are inexpensive, >>>> but most of the electricity is wasted producing heat. The bulbs do not >>>> last >>>> long. >>>> >>>> High-pressure sodium lighting (HPS) is very expensive to buy, uses a >>>> lot of >>>> electricity, and produces the most heat of any lighting used for >>>> horticulture. The lamps are so hot a person would get a third-degree >>>> burn >>>> from a single touch lasting less than a second. Water on an illuminated >>>> lamp - like from a spray bottle - causes an explosion, showering >>>> near-molten glass all over the growing area. I would not recommend HPS >>>> to >>>> any home grower, under any circumstances, because of the heat danger. >>>> Much >>>> safer and equally effective alternatives exist. This kind of lamp was >>>> used >>>> for commercial indoor herb growing for years, but these growers have >>>> switched to other lighting. >>>> >>>> Different kinds of fluorescent lighting work well for growing plants, >>>> and >>>> have been standards for some years. Fluorescent grow lights will be >>>> replaced by LEDs over the next few years for reasons of efficiency and >>>> lifetime cost. Another problem with fluorescent lights is that they >>>> contain >>>> mercury, and LEDs contain little or none. >>>> >>>> Hobbyists used standard fluorescent tubes for years; compact fluorescent >>>> lights (CFL) also work well, and use less electricity. Most indoor >>>> fluorescent light growers choose long tubes because the fixtures fit >>>> better >>>> under shelves or over windowsills. Spiral fluorescent lights also work >>>> well. When a spiral lamp is used, the long axis of the spiral should >>>> point >>>> down at the plants, since spiral lamps are designed to emit more light >>>> along the axis rather than from the sides. All fluorescent lamps need >>>> to be >>>> replaced at least every 12 months. Their light output begins decreasing >>>> within 6 months, and most are down to 75% or less of the initial output >>>> by >>>> a year. The human eye does not see this, but the plants do. If you >>>> choose >>>> to use fluorescent lamps, write the date placed into service on the tube >>>> with an indelible marker, and replace every 9-12 months. Standard >>>> fluorescent lights are hot, but not as hot as an incandescent bulb. They >>>> will cause a burn but most people would remove their hand from the hot >>>> tube >>>> before serious injury. >>>> >>>> Long fluorescent tubes are labeled as to the size of the tube. Standard >>>> tubes are T8. They can work well for growing plants if wattage and color >>>> are chosen correctly. Higher-wattage tubes produce more light, and most >>>> people choose 40 Watt T8 tubes rather than 20 W. A very common fixture >>>> for >>>> light growers is sold as a shop light; it holds two, 4 foot / 122cm >>>> long T8 >>>> tubes. They are easy to suspend underneath shelves. Several can be >>>> plugged >>>> into a power strip, which can be plugged into a heavy-duty electric >>>> timer. >>>> >>>> Aquarium, terrarium and some plant growers often use high-output T5 >>>> tubes >>>> (T5HO), which produce more light for the electricity used than standard >>>> tubes. T5s are smaller in diameter than T8s and require different >>>> fixtures. >>>> High-output lamps require different fixtures than standard output. Many >>>> indoor growers buy T5HO aquarium light fixtures for their plant stands. >>>> The >>>> fixtures and tubes are more expensive than standard T8 fixtures and >>>> tubes, >>>> but when considering the cost of electricity over the life of the >>>> fixture >>>> they cost less to run than T8s. They are readily available at aquarium >>>> shops and online. T5HO fixtures come in different lengths, for different >>>> sizes of aquarium, so it may be easier to find a T5HO fixture to fit a >>>> small space as compared to T8 fixtures. T5HO tubes are hotter than >>>> standard >>>> T8 tubes. >>>> >>>> Fluorescent lights are available in different light colors, which is >>>> measured in degrees Kelvin (K.) This is a measure of how the light >>>> appears >>>> to the human eye, and has nothing to do with the actual Kelvin >>>> temperature >>>> scale. It also says nothing about the actual frequencies of photons >>>> making >>>> up the light. It turns out that fluorescent lights with a light color of >>>> 6,500 K are good for growing plants, so this is what most people buy. >>>> Some >>>> manufacturers refer to 6,500 K color temperature as "daylight", but >>>> others >>>> use "daylight" to refer to other color temperatures. Look for the >>>> number on >>>> the box or label. Other light colors alone are not as good for growing >>>> plants as are 6,500 K. Generally, there is no advantage to adding lamps >>>> with other light colors to lamps of 6,500 K. Aquarists can buy 10,000 K >>>> high-output T5s, which provide brilliant white light. But, plants don't >>>> grow very well under this; it is designed for corals. Many T5HO fixtures >>>> are sold with 10,000 K and actinic blue tubes, neither of which works >>>> well >>>> for plants, so it is better to buy a fixture and tubes separately. >>>> >>>> LED lights of color temperature 6,500 K are not necessarily the best for >>>> growing plants, The usefulness of 6,500 K color temperature applies >>>> only to >>>> fluorescent lights. >>>> >>>> Compact fluorescent lamps use less electricity for the light output >>>> compared to standard fluorescents, so many light growers are switching. >>>> 4 >>>> foot long CFL tubes fit into some standard 4-foot, 2-tube fixtures, but >>>> not >>>> all. Some CFL tubes are made to fit into older fixtures, and other need >>>> fixtures specifically for CFL tubes. Most spiral CFL lamps fit into >>>> older >>>> standard socket fixtures. The least-expensive solution if CFL is chosen >>>> would be standard 4 foot long shop fixtures, each holding two CFL tubes. >>>> Choose 6,500 K color temperature, and the highest Wattage available. >>>> Until >>>> recently indoor commercial growers used CFL lamps of 6,500 K color >>>> temperature at the highest Wattage they could get. >>>> >>>> LED (Light-Emitting Diode) lighting is still being developed and >>>> perfected. >>>> Until recently attention was placed on light for human use, and not >>>> much on >>>> plant growth. So, most knowledge of how LED lighting works for plants >>>> has >>>> been trial-and-error. LEDs last perhaps 3-5 years when used 12 hours per >>>> day. They are more expensive to buy, but use much less electricity than >>>> other lamps. Over their life they are less expensive to run. >>>> >>>> Individual LEDs emit only certain wavelengths of light, and multiple >>>> wavelength LEDs are combined to give the desired light color as seen by >>>> the >>>> eye. Individual LEDs are rectangles about 2 millimeters square. Multiple >>>> LEDs are wired into strips or rectangular arrays, and a protective >>>> covering >>>> usually put over them, to form lamps. LED lamps are available as >>>> flexible >>>> linear strips, lamps resembling fluorescent tubes, and lamps resembling >>>> incandescent bulbs. The tube-like LED lamps require their own fixtures >>>> and >>>> generally cannot be used in older fluorescent fixtures. The >>>> standard-socket >>>> LED light bulbs can be fit into older sockets. >>>> >>>> At first growers tried to match LED wavelength emitted to the known >>>> maximum >>>> absorption peaks of chlorophyll, which produced ghastly-looking pink and >>>> blue light. It has since been realized chlorophyll absorbs and uses >>>> other >>>> wavelengths quite well, so these pink and blue LEDs are now considered >>>> unnecessary. The idea of a "good" LED lamp for plants includes whether >>>> proper wavelength photos are emitted. You will read of`a measurement >>>> called >>>> PAR, photosynthetically active radiation. This measures what proportion >>>> of >>>> the photons emitted by the LEDs are used by the plants. Recall color >>>> temperature measures how the light looks to the human eye. Different >>>> combinations of light wavelength can yield what we think is white light. >>>> LED color temperature has not been found useful for deciding which lamp >>>> to >>>> use on plants, so don't go looking for 6,500 K LED lamps. People are >>>> also >>>> concerned with how many photons are emitted for the electricity input >>>> (efficiency.) >>>> >>>> Not many smaller LED lamps have been designed specifically for plants, >>>> so >>>> it can be difficult to choose. However, by trial and error, people have >>>> reported some lamps work well. In general, most bright white lamps >>>> produce >>>> acceptable growth. An LED shop light Home Depot sells has been found to >>>> work well: >>>> http://homedepot.com/p/Lithonia-Lighting-25-Watt-/ >>>> White-LED-Chain-Mount- >>>> Shoplight-1290L/204378710 >>>> as have various LED light bulbs designed to be screwed into desk lamp >>>> sockets. >>>> >>>> Commercial indoor growers are switching to LED arrays: >>>> http://thegrowshopllc.com/neosol-ds-520w-led-plant… >>>> luminaire-48/ >>>> and plasma lighting >>>> http://thegrowshopllc.com/gavita-pro-300-light-emi… >>>> plasma-02-ac-lep/ >>>> but these are for very valuable crops. >>>> >>>> So, for Norton... Can you buy in Peru standard T8 fluorescent light >>>> tubes >>>> and fixtures with 6,500 K color temperature ("daylight"), 20 or 40 Watt? >>>> (40W is better.) We know those work well, and will not require >>>> importing. >>>> This would be your simplest solution. Tubes must be changed once per >>>> year. >>>> >>>> Or, can you buy in Peru T5HO intended for aquariums, with color >>>> temperature >>>> 6,500 K? Those work well and are more efficient than standard T8. The >>>> tubes >>>> must be changed once a year. >>>> >>>> It is hard to carry long, fragile objects on airplanes. Imported CFL >>>> tubes >>>> only last a year. Imported LED lights will last 3-5 years. >>>> >>>> People could bring you this light from the US, since it is know to work >>>> for >>>> plants. It is not as fragile as are fluorescent tubes: >>>> http://homedepot.com/p/Lithonia-Lighting-25-Watt-/ >>>> White-LED-Chain-Mount- >>>> Shoplight-1290L/204378710 >>>> >>>> They could also bring you a T5HO aquarium fixture from the US, perhaps >>>> with >>>> some replacement 6,500 K bulbs. Again, these are long and fragile. >>>> >>>> Of course, there is no way to tell what will be available in 3-5 years. >>>> >>>> Leo Martin >>>> Zone 9? >>>> Phoenix Arizona USA >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> pbs mailing list >>>> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >>>> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >>>> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/ >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> pbs mailing list >>> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >>> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >>> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/ >>> >> >> >> -- >> Martin >> ---------------------------------------------- >> Southern Germany >> Likely zone 7a >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/ >> > >