Jim: Sorry to have de-railed your train of thought by answering a question before it was asked, but I've always found reading minds much more enjoyable than reading books. This discussion reminds me of my favorite quote: "We have not succeeded in answering all of our problems. The answers we have found only serve to raise a whole set of new questions. In some ways we feel we are as confused as ever, but we believe we are confused on a higher level and about more important things." (E. Kelley 1951) I'll be following this thread to see where it leeds. Keep up the good work Mr. Holmes. Tony Avent Plant Delights Nursery @ Juniper Level Botanic Garden 9241 Sauls Road Raleigh, North Carolina 27603 USA Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F USDA Hardiness Zone 7b email tony@plantdelights.com website http://www.plantdelights.com/ phone 919 772-4794 fax 919 772-4752 "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" - Avent -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Jim McKenney Sent: Monday, November 01, 2010 1:03 PM To: 'Pacific Bulb Society' Subject: Re: [pbs] Banana leaf canna nomenclature question Tony wrote: “We published Canna 'Musafolia' as a cultivar in our 2000 catalog. If someone published it before then, I'll be glad to defer.” I’m trying to take this one step by step so-to-speak, but Tony has anticipated a question I had reserved for a later stage in the discussion. There are several complications involved here, and there is a good chance that they might never be resolved except by fiat. The cannas in question are not evidently a single clonal cultivar. One source (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canna_'Musaefolia/') lists several forms which, for discussion purposes, has been called the (capital G) Musaefolia Group. This term Group does not have taxonomic rank and does not imply relationship or common ancestry. One salient problem in such a situation is deciding which of the similar forms is the original, the first for which the name was used. As things stand now, I don’t think the combination Canna ‘Musaefolia’ (or any of the usual orthographic variants) without further description can be said with certainty to apply to any of the presently known cannas. Another curious fact is that the etymology of the word Musa seems to be unknown. It is not a word of classical Latin or Greek origin (unless you accept that it is from the name of the physician of Augustus, Antonius Musa ; that explanation came after the word was coined. Incidentally, the brother of Antonius Musa was Euphorbus after whom the genus Euphorbia is said to be named.) The spelling musaefolia treats the word musa as a first declension feminine word, but I don’t understand the basis for that. The spelling Musafolia confused me at first, but now that I know that musa itself is not a Latin or Greek word, it makes sense. Musaefolia is not allowed under ICBN because it is made up of two words - each capable of standing individually - joined into one; such words are now automatically changed to compound words by using the appropriate combining vowel (which in Latin will be i in most cases rather than a case ending) to join the stem of the leading word to the following word. Here’s where I think each name stands: Musaefolia: perhaps the original spelling used Musifolia: the above spelling corrected to current ICBN standards for words published under ICBN Musafolia: a spelling which recognizes that musa is not of Latin or Greek origin Are there others? I know that these discussions drive some people crazy, but some of us really like to get into it. And if nothing else, they illustrate how even the seemingly simplest things have unexpected complexity. It’s also nice, when possible, to be precise. And when that is not possible, it’s nice to know what the alternatives and possibilities are. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7 My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com/ BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org/ Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org/