Thanks everyone, this is very helpful. I've been growing California native bulbs for a few years now and just started with South African bulbs. Massonia is different from what I'm used to seeing, glad to know what to watch for now. John --- On Sun, 11/7/10, Roy Herold <rherold@yahoo.com> wrote: From: Roy Herold <rherold@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [pbs] Massonia question To: "Pacific Bulb Society" <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> Date: Sunday, November 7, 2010, 3:45 PM Richard, I think most of the spiny M echinatas in circulation are actually M pygmaea or M hirsuta. The latter designation is terribly confused, applied to some M jasminiflora types from Addo and also to some M pygmaea(?) types from Van Rhyns Pass. Paul Cumbleton has a putative M hirsuta with the extreme spines you are looking form but the flowers are decidedly M depressa types. See <http://srgc.org.uk/logs/logdir/…> for a picture. I'm guessing you would be happy with the spiny M pygmaea that I'm growing. Stay tuned for seeds in the BX if everything works out. --Roy NW of Boston