If the government is as successful at this, as they are at many other things,we will be left with a bland growing pallette,indeed. I'm not sure that this should be a federal responsibility at all. Brazilian pepper is a real pest in Florida,as are several other plants. A few miles north of Florida these plants freeze. In my lifetime our federal government has been taking tremendous amounts of power for itsself,and away from the states,without much basis on precident. Many of the rules, regulations and laws in place now virtually insure the demise of many rare species. Del ________________________________ From: Diana Chapman <rarebulbs@suddenlink.net> To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> Sent: Thu, November 25, 2010 9:56:04 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] Weedy bulbous plants I don't think it is naive at all. Is it logical to ban a plant from the continental US that has caused problems in Hawaii? Also, imagine how these determinations are going to be made. Scientifically? This simply isn't possible, so anecdotal evidence is probably all they can gather. I am not saying that a determination would be made based on information from PBS, but I can assure you that the gathers of information will look into the sources available, and PBS is one. Having dealt with government beaurocracies during my professional life, I don't think logic is their strong point. Diana ----- Original Message ----- From: "AW" <awilson@avonia.com> To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2010 9:18 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Weedy bulbous plants Dear Diana, You mention the threatened policy of USDA "if a plant was weedy or invasive in one situation they would ban it for the entire country". That's an unfortunate choice although it is understandable if you are considering importation of a species new to the country. Once it is in the country there are far fewer limitations on its travel. Australia and New Zealand have similar and extremely tough laws on the matter. Regarding the USDA gathering bulb information from our list, there is information already within it regarding weedy bulbous behavior. For instance, the Photo & Information section says "Oxalis pes-caprae, known as the Bermuda Buttercup, has become a major weed in many Mediterranean areas of the world". If they look outside our site, the Jepson Manual describes the same species as 'a pernicious urban weed' within the state of California. Online, if they look at the site of an organization that deals with weedy species http://cal-ipc.org/resources/news/… they'll find plenty to whet their interest in the way of weedy bulbs in the garden and bulbs escaped into the wild. I think it would be naïve to think that PBS's modest contributions to this large subject could determine whether the USDA decides to ban or admit a new bulbous species. That being the case, I believe we should be direct and accurate in the descriptions of the bulbs. The Wiki provides many growers with access to valuable data to a huge number of species; we should maintain its high standards, reporting information that would assist those growers for all bulbs, including those that can be weedy in certain places. You mentioned that O. convexula does produce bulbils for you. I am assuming this is indoors and/or with potted plants, as you refer to the use of a vacuum cleaner. Outdoors, and with plants in the ground or among scree, this method would be quite ineffective. I find that outdors, the tiny bulbils do not blow around in the wind, but are washed into cracks and crevices by dew or rain. That does not make the solution easy. This year has been unusually wet here early in the season, so that real care has been needed to ensure that seedlings were plucked out before they reached bulbil stage - some showed blooms but I got there in time. Tedious. Andrew Wilson San Diego Dear Jim: > Perhaps I am needlessly paranoid about the 'Invasive Plant Police '< You are not "needlessly paranoid". Work is progressing on the government's proposal of a White List of approved plants. If a plant is not on the list, it is automatically banned. I was casually asked by my agricultural agent last year if banning Oxalis would hurt my business. I don't think that question came out of the blue. The White List proposal has been extensively discussed on this list, and I remember well a couple of years ago a representative of the USDAA saying emphatically that if a plant was weedy or invasive in one situation they would ban it for the entire country. I think Lantana and the problems it has caused in Hawaii was cited. When the USDAA gathers information, you may be certain that it will refer to this list for bulb information, so coupling the name of a bulb with the epithet weedy or invasive could be used as justification for banning it. In this climate all kinds of things self sow with great vigor, including Verbascum, Verbena bonariense, feverfew, borage and virtually anything that produces copious seed. Not Oxalis, though. I used to throw my surplus Oxalis bulbs on the ground outside the greenhouses, where they would form lovely little mats throughout their first winter, never to appear again. I live surrounded by pasture. Not one garden plant has ever appeared in the adjacent pastures whereas they sow themselves vigorously in my garden. We should be very, very careful in how we describe plants that make themselves at home in our gardens and neighborhoods. I don't even cosider O. pes-caprae invasive. I have never seen it invade pastures or natural areas, it is mostly present in gardens and disturbed areas in California. Most people don't like it because it competes visually with plants they want to grow. It does not out-compete them and drive them over the brink, in fact it only thrives where there is little to compete with, and I speak from first hand experience. A tip for dealing with aerial bulbils produced by O. convexula and others. Vacuum them up before they have a chance to blow around. A small hand held vacuum works great. I do this so that they don't get in the adjacent pots. Diana _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/