Well summarised, John. Excellent. If only nurseriesd wouldn't say things like: "We don't like groups, so we just call them all cultivars instead." The full notes on plants names from the RHS PlantFinder can be found here: http://rhs.org.uk/rhsplantfinder/plantnaming.asp/ Meanwhile, back in the garden... 22F and a little overnight snow here in PA, my various A. italicum forms which had started to produce new leaves in 60F a week or two back are flat on the ground and frozen solid. Not good. Graham Rice http://transatlanticplantsman.com/ >Quite a few mesages have flown through cyberspace since this question was >asked, but it needs an answer. > >Are you using your "horticultural group system" like a grex in the >> orchid world? >> >> What would the naming convention be if we were to follow this suggestion? >> >> Carlo >> > > >It's probably easiest to copy out the notes in the RHS Plant Finder that >define a group and a grex: > >Grex >Within orchids, hybrids of the same parentage, regardless of how alike they >are, are given a grex name. Individuals can be selected, given cultivar >names and propagated vegetatively. For example Pleione Versailles gx >'Bucklebury', where Versailles is the grex name and 'Bucklebury' a selected >cultivar. > >Group > This is a collective name for a group of cultivars within a genus with >similar characteristics. The word Group is always included and, where cited >with a cultivar name, it is enclosed in brackets, for example Actaea simplex >(Atropurpurea Group) 'Brunette', where 'Brunette' is a distinct cultivar in >a group of purple-leaved cultivars. > Another example of a Group is Rhododendron polycladum Scintillans Group. >In this case R. scintillans was a species that is now botanically 'sunk' >within R. polycladum, but it is still recognised horticulturally as a Group. > Group names are also used for swarms of hybrids with the same parentage, >for example Rhododendron Polar Bear Group. these were formerly treated as >grex names, a term now used only for orchids. A single clone from the Group >may be given the same cultivar name, for example, Rhododendron 'Polar Bear'. > >.................................... > >In the case of Arum italicum with strongly white-veined leaves, which have >been variously known as 'Marmoratum' (= marbled) or 'Pictum' (= painted), >there is clearly a vast number of seedlings that bear this characteristic. >They can't all be one cultivar, but they certainly share the defining >character of white veins and as such the Group concept is ideal. Since >'Pictum' is an undesirable name because of the existence of the species Arum >pictum, Marmoratum is the preferred epithet and Marmoratum Group would >therefore be most appropriate. Within the Arum italicum Marmoratum Group are >numerous selected cultivars (some of dubious value, mind you!) e.g. 'Winter >Beauty', 'White Winter' and these would be written Arum italicum (Marmoratum >Group) 'White Winter'. Seedlings from the clone 'White Winter' would then >just blend back into the Group, unless one were sufficiently distinct to >warrant a cultivar name. > >My reservation about the Group concept is that in (let's call them) >unparticular hands it could be used to make something seem better than it >is, and can conceal a multitude of inferior plants. For example, the Actaea >(formerly Cimicifuga) 'Brunette' example, the seedlings can be only just >brown over green, but still count as Atropurpurea Group. The wise gardener >will always go for a named selection anyway, but the less experienced might >be seduced into getting something inferior that bears an important-sounding >name - 'full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.' > >As always, careful definition of the Group, or cultivar's characteristics is >very important. > >John Grimshaw > > >Dr John M. Grimshaw >Sycamore Cottage >Colesbourne >Nr Cheltenham >Gloucestershire GL53 9NP > >Tel. 01242 870567 > >COLESBOURNE PARK OPEN DAYS 2007 >Easter Monday 9 April, Arboretum Weekend 15-16 September >Gates open 1pm, last entry 4 pm >website: http://www.colesbournegardens.org.uk/ > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php