Spanish iris etc
jlubelover@telus.net (Sat, 22 Jul 2006 09:29:42 PDT)
On 21 Jul 06, at 14:18, James Waddick wrote:
Traditionally Spanish Iris have been selections of I. xiphium PERIOD.
Likewise, English iris are selections of I. latifolia PERIOD
But, both of these and other related species* have
contributed to the complex of Dutch Iris
The Dutch irises are generally considered not to have I. latifolia in
their ancestry, but Mathews (quoted below) admits the possibility.
Theoretically there can be NO hybrid English or Spanish Iris,
by definition these would be Dutch Iris (all hybrids).
I think you contradict yourself. A hypothetical hybrid "Dutch" iris
with I. latifolia in its ancestry would also be a hybrid English iris.
Of course you need the right climate too and we discussed the
difficulties of long term success with Dutch iris in the last year or
so. Few people succeed.
Iris latifolia does fairly well in Victoria. The cultivar "Mount
Blanc" has done well for me for many years, and the common blue-
violet form (well, for some values of "common") I've seen growing in
a front garden under conditions of total neglect. However, in my own
garden the common blue-violet form survives but does not flower
because of competition from trees and shrubs and perhaps lack of sun.
Supposedly I. latifolia demands more water than I. xiphium and its
hybrid offspring.
Bulbous irises are usually divided into several subgenera:
1. the reticulatas, aka subgenus /Hermodactyloides/ or genus
/Iridodictyum/
2. the xiphions, aka subgenus /Xiphium/ or genus /Xiphium/
3. the junos, aka subgenus /Scorpiris/ or genus /Juno/
We find this 3-way classification of bulbous irises in Dykes'
"Irises" (1912), Köhlein's "Iris" (1981, Eng. translation 1987), and
Brian Mathews' "The Iris" (1981, rev. ed 1989).
Whether these are subgenera or distinct genera is not of importance.
For the purposes of the present discussion, it is only important to
note that the xiphions, including "Spanish", "English", and "Dutch"
irises form a natural group universally recognized.
Mathews says on p. 138 "There are also many garden hybrids betgween
I. xiphium and I. tingitana, possibly also with I. latifolia
influence, and these are known collectively as the "Dutch iris".
To recap:
I. xiphium = Spanish iris
I. latifolia = I. xiphioides = English iris
hybrids within the xiphion group = Dutch iris.
As for the wiki, seems to me that under "Iris", we'd do well to have
a sub-page for each recognized subcategory, no matter what you might
call them. The wiki would be most valuable if it recognized the
disparities in naming and what level the subcategories should go at,
while pointing out that the subcategories are universally accepted.
Mary Sue, shall I start work on synthesizing such a system?