>Because, one, if it is that rare and there are that >many people purchasing the seeds to grow them, then it >would seem that sooner rather than later, there would >be a bunch of people around the world growing and then >further propagating that species. And two, I find it >hard to imagine a scenario where all the seed of a >species was being collected and yet no one was >furthering the increase of the plants in captivity and >the species thereby went extinct. (Which is just a >twist on my first reason.) --- Lee Poulsen <wpoulsen@pacbell.net> wrote: AMEN! Having observed the many dead plants in the K.S.U herbarium and working with them everyday I find it hard to see the need in collecting 20-30 plants from the same locality over the course of as many years for scientific reasons(dead plants), i.e a Zigadenus population near here that has been collected from 40+ times the past 80 years. Some of our files have 100+ specimens for various things, even those plants with small ranges. Granted the only rare one that I have had much interest in is Asclepias meadii, and it is limited to 7 collections ,only one made within the past 60 years. Most of the populations of this plant are protected and have been studied for 30+(?) years. Most of these studies involve it's lack want/ability to procreate sexually. But, some do produce limited numbers of seed. Yet the plant is still in Federally Endangered. Had a few of those seed pods gotten into the right hands (Ellen Hornig could do a fine job!) 30 years ago the plant would be spread throughout gardens around the Us or the world. I searched several counties for this spring was Allium perdulce. I spent over 36(or more) hours of my time finding locations in the herbarium, Frasers papers, and just searching suitable habitat. Most of the original collections (1930's) were in Cloud County which is now 90% covered by agriculture land. I found one small population over the course of 400 miles driving and three days time! Only one of his original locations was still in existence on a sandy hillside left uncultivated for cattle. I am currently working on a single population of Dirca, a genus that has 3 species(yes 3, no one seems to have heard about mexicana.) These Kansas plants key out to occidentalis. The property they grow on, a public arboretum, is fortunately protected. But even they have destroyed parts of the population by bull-dozing pathways through it. They have successfully destroyed a small colony of Collinisia verna, one of maybe 7 in Kansas. I have been collecting seed of the Dirca and trying to get it out to people before it is placed on the federal extinction program. Limiting access to plants is the key, not limiting reasonable access to seed for cultivation. I tried to get one branch of occidentalis for a voucher and DNA work this spring from California but never even got a reply. This was from my work address. If someone had the time to make a list of plants actually extirpated by gardeners, and one of plants extirpated by construction, agriculture, urban sprawl, medecine, ethobotanical reasons, and natural causes, I am sure that the latter one would run far longer than the the first. Then make a list of those plants saved by someone with a keen interest in plants. Cultivation + propagation = conservation I would prefer label data down to at least county, province, etc. level if possible. Most botanical journals give out very little location data now. Most herbaria that have online databases give no information besides state. Aaron Manhattan, KS KSU __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com/