pbs Digest, Vol 62, Issue 24

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Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 62, Issue 24

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Today's Topics:

1. Re: Gladiolus books (Diane Whitehead)
2. Re : Gladiolus books (lucgbulot@aol.com)
3. Wiki Additions-Narcissus and Whiteheadia, Colored Logo
(Mary Sue Ittner)
4. Re: Gladiolus books (Dell Sherk)
5. Re: Wiki Additions-Narcissus and Whiteheadia, Colored Logo
(Diane Whitehead)
6. Re: Eranthis hyemails 'Guinea Gold' (totototo@telus.net)
7. Re: Eranthis hyemails 'Guinea Gold' (Jim McKenney)
8. Re: Eranthis hyemalis Tubergenii Group 'Guinea Gold'
(David Victor)
9. Merendera sobolifera (Jim McKenney)
10. Re: Eranthis hyemails 'Guinea Gold' (Paul T.)
11. Re: Eranthis hyemalis Tubergenii Group 'Guinea Gold'
(Jim McKenney)
12. Re: Eranthis hyemalis Tubergenii Group 'Guinea Gold'
(Jim McKenney)
13. Re: Eranthis hyemalis Tubergenii Group 'Guinea Gold' (Paul T.)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 10:23:15 -0700
From: Diane Whitehead <voltaire@islandnet.com>
Subject: Re: [pbs] Gladiolus books
To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <4830438C-427A-4300-9FF3-3D0E73E42D11@islandnet.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes

Powells in Portland Oregon has 1 copy left of Gladiolus in Tropical
Africa for $17.95

http://www.powells.com/biblio/1-9780881923339-2/

Diane

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 13:49:30 -0400
From: lucgbulot@aol.com
Subject: [pbs] Re : Gladiolus books
To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID: <8CA57378D7AE3EA-148C-3D9@WEBMAIL-MB05.sysops.aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hi Dell,

I just had a look at abebooks.com... 30 copies (new and second hand) are
avalaible from various book sellers - price ranging from $ 12 to 45...
Even out of print (I believe), this book is easy to find...

Luc

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 11:11:19 -0700
From: Mary Sue Ittner <msittner@mcn.org>
Subject: [pbs] Wiki Additions-Narcissus and Whiteheadia, Colored Logo
To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20080318104538.015d9c58@mail.mcn.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

New Narcissus from Jay Yourch:
'Toby the First' and a group picture of 'Wisley'
http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/…
'Puppet'
http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/…
'Trepolo'
http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/…
'Mount Hood'
http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/…
group shot of 'Chromacolor'
http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/…
'Pappy George' and 'Sweetness'
http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/…
'Toto'
http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/…

Additional pictures of Whiteheadia growing in the rocks in Namaqualand,
September 2006. We weren't traveling with Diane and Don, but we were there
at the same time and don't know if the plants we found in the rocks were
the same plants they found in the same rocks. These were the only ones we
saw in our three days in Namaqualand and maybe the found the same ones.
http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/…

Also Jennifer Hildebrand has added color to the wiki logo. If you can't
see
this, you may need to refresh or reload the page. I have found in Mozilla
Firefox that can have fleeting results with the new image replaced with
the
old image at a later date. It seems to be tenacious about holding on to
the
past. Thanks Jen for this attractive improvement.

Mary Sue

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 14:34:15 -0400
From: "Dell Sherk" <dells@voicenet.com>
Subject: Re: [pbs] Gladiolus books
To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <20080318183505.714094C011@lists.ibiblio.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Thanks, Diane, for the tip. It looks like some inconsiderate person has
snatched it up already. :<0

Dell

-----Original Message-----
From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org]
On Behalf Of Diane Whitehead
Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 1:23 PM
To: Pacific Bulb Society
Subject: Re: [pbs] Gladiolus books

Powells in Portland Oregon has 1 copy left of Gladiolus in Tropical
Africa for $17.95

http://www.powells.com/biblio/1-9780881923339-2/

Diane

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------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 11:43:35 -0700
From: Diane Whitehead <voltaire@islandnet.com>
Subject: Re: [pbs] Wiki Additions-Narcissus and Whiteheadia, Colored
Logo
To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <8B04BF09-33C5-4A46-8D90-6DC80D23B414@islandnet.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes

I got "tuned in" to Whiteheadia, so I found it in quite a few places.
No exciting variants, though.

Diane Whitehead

------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 12:12:18 -0700
From: totototo@telus.net
Subject: Re: [pbs] Eranthis hyemails 'Guinea Gold'
To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <20080318191129.81NJVBHCQB@priv-edmwaa05.telusplanet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On 18 Mar 08, at 11:59, Jim McKenney wrote:

There are those who regard nomenclatural matters as mattes of right
and wrong: in their view, there is only one right way to do things. I
don?t look at it that way at all.

Oh, come now, what's a little bolshevism between friends?

I?ve been thinking a lot about winter aconites lately, and these
seemingly simple little flowers offer some examples of just how
opinion comes to influence nomenclature.

In the heading for this post I?ve deliberately used the provocative,
benignly provocative I hope, combination Eranthis hyemalis ?Guinea
Gold?.

Those of you who know your winter aconites know that ?Guinea Gold? was
raised in the early twentieth century and presented to the gardening
public as a hybrid between what were then known as Eranthis hyemalis
and E. cilicica. I believe it was Bowles who coined the name
tubergenii for the hybrid group. Until recently, the usual citation of
the name would have been Eranthis x tubergenii ?Guinea Gold?.

Janis Ruksans, in his book "Buried Treasure", mentions this plant as
one he's received from many sources and doesn't think he's ever
gotten the "real thing." I have a patch labelled "Eranthis ?
tubergenii" that originated at Gothenberg and, afaik, doesn't pretend
to be 'Guinea Gold'. Its flowers are rather small, but a deep
saturated yellow, with darkish foliage, just as Ruksans describes.

Since both specific names are validly published, names for this plant
are valid whether they presume one species or two.

Some modern botanists regard Eranthis hyemalis and E. cilicica as
conspecific. In that view, ?Guinea Gold? is not a hybrid ? at any
rate, not an interspecific hybrid. That allows it to be cited as
Eranthis hyemalis ?Guinea Gold?: both parents of this cultivar are of
the species Eranthis hyemalis.

There is another formula one encounters: Eranthis hyemalis Tubergenii
Group ?Guinea Gold?. I?m not sure what to make of this combination: I
assume it is tacit recognition of the existence of more than one
?Guinea Gold?. In this view, if I?ve got it right, although the
original ?Guinea Gold? was a clone, this combination of names
recognizes that not only does more than one plant now go around under
the name ?Guinea Gold?, but also that the true, original plant is
seemingly lost in the crowd.

What that fancy names means is "a particular clone called Guinea
Gold, which is a one of a flock of similar looking plants, the
Tubergenii Group, that can be distinguished from run of the mill
Eranthis hyemalis. Got it?

Some people throw up their hands in the face of such complexities. I
relish them as a way of attaining more finely nuanced expressions of
the relationships involved. Is one right and the others wrong? I
don?t think so. Like everything else in science, the scientific basis
of nomenclature is an if?then proposition. If you believe that
Eranthis hyemalis and E. cilicica are discrete species, you write
Eranthis x tubergenii ?Guinea Gold?.

If you believe E. hyemails and E. cilicica are conspecific, you write
Eranthis hyemalis ?Guinea Gold?.

If you believe the plants going around under the name ?Guinea Gold?
cannot with certainty be attributed to the original clone, then you
write Eranthis Tubergenii Group ?Guinea Gold? or even Eranthis
hyemalis Tubergenii Group ?Guinea Gold?.

Or Eranthis ? tubergenii.

But is one of these right and the others wrong? Get out the boxing
gloves!

They're all correct. Remember that taxonomy is largely a science of
opinion, not hard facts, so the only measure of validity is whether
the publication of a name met the technical rules such as Latin
description, etc.

My best guess is that the cross has been made more than once and the
original 'Guinea Gold' is long lost track of in a crowd of
lookalikes. It probably still exists in some gardens, as eranthis
seem to be pretty permanent plants, but who knows?

--
Rodger Whitlock
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate

on beautiful Vancouver Island

------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 15:41:59 -0400
From: "Jim McKenney" <jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com>
Subject: Re: [pbs] Eranthis hyemails 'Guinea Gold'
To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <001a01c88930$22f9a240$2f01a8c0@Library>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I think I follow you, Roger.

If so, then to indicate that scenario where all the claimants to the name
Guinea Gold are grouped, should we write Eranthis hyemalis Tubergenii
Group
Guinea Gold Group?
Eranthis hyemalis Guinea Gold Group?
Eranthis Guinea Gold Group?

Is there a better way?

Jim McKenney

------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 19:45:27 +0000
From: David Victor <davidxvictor@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: [pbs] Eranthis hyemalis Tubergenii Group 'Guinea Gold'
To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID: <20080318194540.B6A9B4C02A@lists.ibiblio.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

Hi Jim,

You raised a question about the term Tubergenii Group. Its a
cultivar group name i.e. a superset of cultivars which contains the
cultivar 'Guinea Gold'. Someone somewhere has published the name
Tubergenii Group, together with a description of the range of
cultivars that it includes. The rules are laid down in the Cultivated
Code.

The aim with such a grouping is to pull together plants that have a
horticultural relationship which are within a Denomination Class (as
laid down by the Cultivated Code, which is normally a genus), but
which otherwise may not be a very close botanical relationship. For
example, it could be a group of variegated plants or a group of early
flowering varieties. However, the groups that are normally chosen
are close and are often a group of interspecific hybrids.

An appropriate example taken from the Code might be in Iris, the
Dutch Group, which includes the complex of early flowering cultivars
arising mainly from I. tingitana, I. xiphium var. lusitanica and I
xiphium var. praecox.

Incidentally, one useful feature of such Groups for horticultural
purposes is that a particular cultivar can be in more than one group,
depending on the need of the author.

Best regards,
David Victor

------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 13:05:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jim McKenney <jamesamckenney@verizon.net>
Subject: [pbs] Merendera sobolifera
To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <247132.20871.qm@web84312.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252

I mentioned Merendera sobolifera and its peculiar floral construction in
several recent posts. I?ve added three images of Merendera sobolifera to
the wiki this afternoon. These show the unusual corm, the peculiar,
tenuous, elongated tepals and the ?hooks? which hold the tepals together
at the waist (arcane botanical term) of the flower.

Take a look at:

http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/…

Enjoy!

Jim McKenney
jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com
Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871? North, 77.09829? West, USDA
zone 7
My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com/
BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/

Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS
Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org/

Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org/

------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 07:54:33 +1100
From: "Paul T." <ptyerman@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Re: [pbs] Eranthis hyemails 'Guinea Gold'
To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <69naj8$73npi9@outbound.icp-qv1-irony-out3.iinet.net.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

Jim,

Does the "aff" tag fit here? Never quite sure how it is
applied. Always think of it as meaning "related to" or "possibly"
when I see it in naming. Could Eranthis aff. 'Guinea Gold' be
applied in this case?

Are many of the 'Guina Gold' that are about coming from seedlings
from the original? Given it is a hybrid between species (or not,
depending on whether they're all hyemalis <grin>) then I would assume
you'd throw back to both sides, which would give you a whole range of
different flowers under the one name etc?

Cheers.

Paul T.
Canberra, Australia - USDA Zone Equivalent approx. 8/9

Growing an eclectic collection of plants from all over the world
including Aroids, Crocus, Cyclamen, Erythroniums, Fritillarias,
Galanthus, Irises, Trilliums (to name but a few) and just about
anything else that doesn't move!!

------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 17:35:15 -0400
From: "Jim McKenney" <jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com>
Subject: Re: [pbs] Eranthis hyemalis Tubergenii Group 'Guinea Gold'
To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <001b01c8893f$f56aeef0$2f01a8c0@Library>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Thanks, David and Paul.

David, you sort of touched on the aspect of the capital G Group concept
which appeals to me so greatly, and which makes it such a useful tool when
sorting out plants without pedigrees: while it's axiomatic that the
categories of formal botany not be polyphyletic, the elements which make
up
a capital G Group may be polyphyletic.

Has no subset (i.e. capital G Group) of Tubergenii Group been named for
the
group of cultivars which are candidates for consideration as 'Guinea
Gold'?

The plants which make up Tubergenii Group as I know it range widely in
characters. Many are not particularly desirable as garden plants.

But every once and a while one runs across a plant which has the sort of
characteristics which make an exceptional garden plant and seems to answer
to one's preconceived notion of what 'Guinea Gold' should be. These have
presumably been the source of the "false Guinea Golds" said to be making
the
rounds.

When the question before us is "which is the true 'Guinea Gold', that
subset
is the one we need to focus on.

Paul mentioned the despicable practice (no bad reflection meant on you,
Paul) of using the abbreviation aff. in naming plants. Aff. is neo-Latin
for
"beats me, I guess it's [fill in the blank]" Since all living things are
presumably related at one level or another, every living thing is "aff"
every other living thing to some degree. And so this aff. business doesn't
tell us much. We gardeners are by and large optimistic sorts. Does hope
bloom anywhere else so eternally as it does among gardeners?

To answer your other question, Paul, I think I've read that the original
'Guinea Gold' is/was "sterile". I'll repeat my usual caveat here: claims
of
sterility in the older literature have to be taken with caution. Often the
"sterility" in question is the result of a triploid condition in a
population which is otherwise diploid. Such triploids often give abundant
viable seed when pollinated by tetraploids.

Jim McKenney
jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com
Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871? North, 77.09829? West, USDA
zone
7
My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com/
BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/

Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS
Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org/

Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org/

------------------------------

Message: 12
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 17:45:17 -0400
From: "Jim McKenney" <jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com>
Subject: Re: [pbs] Eranthis hyemalis Tubergenii Group 'Guinea Gold'
To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <001c01c88941$5c039f80$2f01a8c0@Library>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I noticed that David (thank you) unobtrusively corrected the typo in the
subject line of my original post for this thread.

Aside from the embarrassment, there is a practical aspect to this that's
on
my mind.

If we correct typos in the subject line, will the messages with the
correction link with the ones with the typo for search purposes?

Jim McKenney

------------------------------

Message: 13
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 08:47:43 +1100
From: "Paul T." <ptyerman@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Re: [pbs] Eranthis hyemalis Tubergenii Group 'Guinea Gold'
To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <6eq1ke$5p6r1o@outbound.icp-qv1-irony-out4.iinet.net.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

Or, of course, they were sterile in those conditions, but taken into
other conditions they were no longer sterile. I often here talk of
particular things which are sterile in such-and-such a country, but
here in Aus (or vice versa) they produce seed. Sometimes a change in
environment can beat that sterility, and all it takes is one beating
of that sterility to start producing those seedlings that muddy the
waters as to the name being a clone or a group. And that is leaving
aside the just plain "wrong thing under wrong name" problem that
brings named clones uniqueness undone. <grin>

Cheers.

Paul T.
Canberra, Australia - USDA Zone Equivalent approx. 8/9

------------------------------

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End of pbs Digest, Vol 62, Issue 24
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