Thanks I’ll set it up over the holidays and let you know what I find out. I’ll hope for the best. Eric Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 18, 2023, at 12:11 PM, mark akimoff via pbs <pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net> wrote: > > HI Tim, > > Get 6 pots that you will be using to germinate your seeds in, you can use > beans, tomatoes, cucumbers or mustard greens, pretty much any fast growing > annual vegetable seeds will show some sort of toxicity response, I think > cucumbers are used because they salt tolerant and highly sensitive to most > common pesticides especially growth regulators like 2,4d that show up in > municipal composts because of lawn clippings. Plant 8 seeds per pot, but > make sure 2 of the pots are known to be pesticide free, like something from > your garden where you know hasn't been sprayed (control group) or a bagged > commercial mix that you trust. > > Put the pots in warm, well lit place just like you are starting seeds and > record the results when they start germinating. Stem twisting, stunting, > yellowing, deformities of the growing tips or failure to germinate can all > be signs of toxicity of some sort. Hopefully all the pots germinate and > grow away with strong and healthy seedlings and you know you should be good > to go to use it for your valuable seeds. Share your results with us! > > Some time ago, I had a commercial lab do a soil test on my three way soil > blend that I use for growing bulbs commercially. It's a three way of > Composted Cow Manure, Screened sandy loam topsoil and pumice. I do > occasionally see some salt burn on the tips of emerging bulbs, some South > African species like Ferraria seem particularly susceptible to it. I know > it's salt because the soil test showed high levels likely from too fresh of > cow manure, In this case, and possibly with your mixes you have made, you > can leach out some of the problem by leaving the soil exposed to rainfall > for a season. > > Mark > >> On Mon, Dec 18, 2023 at 8:04 AM Eric via pbs < >> pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net> wrote: >> >> All these horror stories of losing plants to bad compost has me worried. I >> used a local company from which I’ve purchased mulch, topsoil and sand. >> I mixed up some potting mix to plant an entire season of seedlings in >> larger pots. Now, I hope I didn’t kill the lot. >> I have some of the compost sifted and sitting in 55 gal cans. >> Can anyone detail the “cucumber test” mentioned in earlier post. >> Thanks >> Eric >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Dec 18, 2023, at 10:26 AM, Joseph Gorman via pbs < >> pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net> wrote: >>> >>> Tim, >>> >>> I've had mixed experiences with municipal compost. When I lived near DC, >>> there was free "leaf mulch" they shredded in small batches and left at >>> transfer stations. It didn't get hot but never gave me any trouble with >>> trash, herbicides, weed seeds or pesticides. >>> >>> I tried municipal compost from a few smaller cities within about an hour >>> from me before I found any that seemed decent. Lots of rocks and plastic; >>> some of the composts I saw didn't resemble composted organic matter at >> all >>> and seemed more like dredged river sediment. Used one city's compost that >>> had industrial windrow machines and temperature logs and was happy with >> it >>> for a few years before I got a batch in 2018/2019/2020 that contained >> high >>> levels of an (aminopyralid?) herbicide, killing off thousands of square >>> feet of garden that still not even weeds will grow in. Some of the tree >>> service folks around here run their own composting operations, and I'd >>> trust their stuff a little more with regard to herbicides but less with >>> regard to temperature control. >>> >>> I don't currently mix most of my own potting mixes, but when I do I buy a >>> lot of the raw ingredients from a local potting soil mixer (Dirtcraft >>> Organics) or get custom mixes if I can get in on a group buy. Their >> compost >>> comes from hospital food waste in Charlotte, the nutrient balances are >> good >>> and the only weed seed I think ever came in through it was one productive >>> and delicious tomato plant. >>> >>> As for rice hulls, I've been trying them for a few years after they >> showed >>> up in Dirtcraft's seed starting mix. I don't repot often so I don't know >> if >>> they'll last as long as my soil mix needs to, but Cyclamen have been >>> happier in mixes with rice hulls than almost anything I've tried. >> Currently >>> a lot (like 3x) cheaper than perlite here. I've seen a few nurseries >> using >>> it as a top dressing for pots, haven't tried that myself. If anyone has >>> info on rice hull/perlite replacement ratios I'd love that info! >>> >>> I've switched from peat to coconut coir to mostly composted local >> forestry >>> waste for everything except carnivorous plants (and based on some advice >>> from a local grower, I'll switch them to coconut as soon as this bag runs >>> out), and it seems there's a shift from coir to more sustainable/local >>> stuff like forestry waste, peanut shells etc as nurserymen dial in their >>> formulae. Feeling the heartbreak of living in a place where 10,000+ acres >>> at a time of Lilium, Trillium, Cypripedium etc. get destroyed by >>> mountaintop removal coal mining, I'm trying to avoid using >>> stripmined/rainforest deforestation etc. materials in my growing media as >>> much as possible. >>> >>> -joe >>> >>> >>>> On Mon, Dec 18, 2023, 7:23 AM Tim Eck via pbs < >>>> pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net> wrote: >>>> >>>> Luckily they quietly took the bad stuff - arsenic - out of pressure >> treated >>>> wood a few decades ago when a demographic study (of well water in >> Formosa, >>>> I think) showed it was proportionally carcinogenic at all levels. Now, >> I >>>> think, they only use copper naphthenate for fungicide in pressure >> treating. >>>> Personally, I am banking on The American Chestnut Foundation (TACF) >>>> eventually solving the problem altogether because chestnut wood seems to >>>> persist untreated for decades in ground contact. >>>> For those interested, TACF has withdrawn its support for their >> transgenic >>>> chestnut, partially due to their dissatisfaction with the growth rate >> using >>>> a constitutive promoter (always on) for the OxO gene (destroys oxalic >> acid >>>> secreted by the blight fungus). But the departure from SUNY's >> deregulation >>>> request was precipitated by the discovery of a misidentification of the >>>> clone they were testing early in the program. TACF will continue >>>> investigating transgenic (but with wound induced promoters) as well as >>>> hybridizing and biocontrol. >>>> If anyone is interested in breeding blight resistant forest quality >>>> chestnut trees, I have (free) seed for the final generation of a >> breeding >>>> program I have been working on for a few decades. The ideal plot would >> be >>>> about two acres of well-drained cornfield. >>>> Tim >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sun, Dec 17, 2023 at 9:29 PM Laura Grant via pbs < >>>> pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net> wrote: >>>> >>>>> We had a bad experience with composted " pine bark" delivered by a >> local >>>>> supplier. After most of the truck load was spread around the favorite >>>>> plants we noticed some losses. When we came to the bottom of the pile >> we >>>>> found labels that read "pressure treated". >>>>> Laura >>>>> >>>>> On Sun, Dec 17, 2023 at 3:33 PM Jan Jeddeloh via pbs < >>>>> pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I used to get tree trimmer waste at my old place. Some of those tree >>>>>> trimmers also do some maintenance and I once got a load that that >>>> wasn’t >>>>>> straight trees. It was filled with crap from blowing off parking lots >>>>>> etc. I learned my lesson. Always ask what’s in the truck before they >>>>> dump. >>>>>> >>>>>> Jan >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Dec 17, 2023, at 12:23 PM, Arnold Trachtenberg via pbs < >>>>>> pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We had the company deliver a load of compost to our community garden >>>>> and >>>>>> it was full of debris and garbage from street pick up. >>>>>>> I've never seen any lab work on the compost they sell. It may be >>>>> tested >>>>>> different in CA, but not here in NJ. >>>>>>> I can imagine the petrochemicals, heavy metals and brake lining >>>> debris >>>>>> picked up when leaves are vacuumed up in the fall from our streets. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Arnold >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sunday, December 17, 2023 at 02:54:59 PM EST, Tim Eck via pbs < >>>>>> pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Good point. I knew it got hot enough to kill most pathogens but was >>>>> not >>>>>>> aware it decomposes pesticides. I rather doubt it destroys those >>>>>>> organo-halide bonds but they aren't so common anymore. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sun, Dec 17, 2023 at 2:38 PM Nan Sterman via pbs < >>>>>>> pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Municipal composters all have to adhere to very strict ISO >>>>> requirements >>>>>>>> and test regularly. They all hot compost and at the hot compost >>>> temps, >>>>>>>> pesticides and pathogens break down so they are not a concern. The >>>>>> testing >>>>>>>> is their - and you - assurance of that. All that testing is >>>> intended >>>>> to >>>>>>>> ensure there are no problems with the municipal composts. I am >>>>> actually >>>>>>>> more concerned about using compost from non regulated facilities >>>> like >>>>>>>> nurseries. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Nan >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent from my eye eye phone. All typos are the captain’s fault. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Dec 17, 2023, at 11:21 AM, Jane McGary via pbs < >>>>>>>> pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> As Mark mentioned, municipal compost in this area includes lawn >>>>>>>> clippings, and I don't use it either for fear of herbicide residue. >>>> I >>>>> do >>>>>>>> use a mulch containing compost, but the company that provides it >>>> tests >>>>>> the >>>>>>>> ingredients for residual harmful chemicals. I like to use a minor >>>>>>>> proportion of organic material in bulb potting mix, and most >>>> recently >>>>> I >>>>>>>> bought bags of "garden topsoil" from certified organic sources for >>>>> this >>>>>>>> purpose. The main things I avoid are bark, which appears to be >>>>> attacked >>>>>> by >>>>>>>> a fungus with visible mycelia that can also attack the tunics of >>>>> dormant >>>>>>>> bulbs, and perlite and vermiculite, which have no value to the >>>> plants >>>>>> and >>>>>>>> tend to rise to the top; the latter are also said to be dangerous if >>>>> you >>>>>>>> inhale the dust. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> When I started growing bulbs seriously around 1990, I had a country >>>>>>>> place with an alder woodland on part of it (alders are nitrogen >>>>>> fixers). I >>>>>>>> screened the topsoil to make up part of the bulb mix, along with >>>>> ground >>>>>>>> pumice and coarse upriver sand. This worked very well and there >>>> seemed >>>>>> to >>>>>>>> be no problem with disease, even though the leafmold surely >>>> contained >>>>>> all >>>>>>>> sorts of microorganisms. I did not use this mix for seed sowing, but >>>>>>>> instead used peat as a minor component. I think sterilizing seed >>>> soil >>>>> is >>>>>>>> pointless unless you can maintain laboratory conditions, since >>>> spores, >>>>>>>> etc., will arrive in the air. I used to grow Meconopsis by >>>>>> surface-sowing >>>>>>>> on milled sphagnum moss (not peat) as a preventive measure, but >>>> since >>>>>>>> moving to a place where that genus doesn't grow well, I gave that >>>> up. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Probably the hardy, summer-dormant bulbs I grow are not as >>>> vulnerable >>>>>> to >>>>>>>> disease as the tropical and subtropical species some PBS members >>>> have. >>>>>>>> Surplus bulbs that I've removed to the garden mostly flourish there >>>>>> despite >>>>>>>> weekly irrigation in most places. It has always seemed to me that >>>>>>>> cultivating these plants as "hard" as they can tolerate results in >>>>>>>> healthier populations that appear in character. Coming to bulb >>>> growing >>>>>> from >>>>>>>> the perspective of alpine and rock gardening is no doubt an >>>> influence. >>>>>> My >>>>>>>> bulb house is very like an alpine house, but not even minimally >>>>>> frost-free. >>>>>>>> Many PBS members might despair at a situation where South African >>>>> bulbs >>>>>> and >>>>>>>> tropical amaryllids can't be grown, but I like the relative freedom >>>> of >>>>>> this >>>>>>>> kind of gardening. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Jane McGary, Portland, Oregon, USA >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 12/17/2023 8:18 AM, Robert Lauf via pbs wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Regarding arborist debris, I'd be curious to know whether the >>>>> kinds >>>>>> of >>>>>>>> bacteria and fungi inhabiting half-dead trees would present a >>>> problem >>>>> to >>>>>>>> bulbs or if they are sufficiently host-specific that they are >>>> harmless >>>>>> in >>>>>>>> potting media. For all I know, they might be the same microbes >>>>> working >>>>>> in >>>>>>>> composters. >>>>>>>>>> Any mycologists out there who could weigh in on this? >>>>>>>>>> Bob Zone 7 >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> pbs mailing list >>>>>>>>>> pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net >>>>>>>>>> https://lists.pacificbulbsociety.net/cgi-bin/… >>>>>>>>>> Unsubscribe: <mailto:pbs-unsubscribe@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net >>>>> >>>>>>>>>> PBS Forum latest: >>>>>>>> https://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbsforum/index.php/… >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> pbs mailing list >>>>>>>>> pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net >>>>>>>>> https://lists.pacificbulbsociety.net/cgi-bin/… >>>>>>>>> Unsubscribe: <mailto:pbs-unsubscribe@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net> >>>>>>>>> PBS Forum latest: >>>>>>>> https://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbsforum/index.php/… >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> pbs mailing list >>>>>>>> pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net >>>>>>>> https://lists.pacificbulbsociety.net/cgi-bin/… >>>>>>>> Unsubscribe: <mailto:pbs-unsubscribe@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net> >>>>>>>> PBS Forum latest: >>>>>>>> https://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbsforum/index.php/… >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> pbs mailing list >>>>>>> pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net >>>>>>> https://lists.pacificbulbsociety.net/cgi-bin/… >>>>>>> Unsubscribe: <mailto:pbs-unsubscribe@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net> >>>>>>> PBS Forum latest: >>>>>> https://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbsforum/index.php/… >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> pbs mailing list >>>>>>> pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net >>>>>>> https://lists.pacificbulbsociety.net/cgi-bin/… >>>>>>> Unsubscribe: <mailto:pbs-unsubscribe@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net> >>>>>>> PBS Forum latest: >>>>>> https://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbsforum/index.php/… >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> pbs mailing list >>>>>> pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net >>>>>> https://lists.pacificbulbsociety.net/cgi-bin/… >>>>>> Unsubscribe: <mailto:pbs-unsubscribe@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net> >>>>>> PBS Forum latest: >>>>>> https://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbsforum/index.php/… >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> pbs mailing list >>>>> pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net >>>>> https://lists.pacificbulbsociety.net/cgi-bin/… >>>>> Unsubscribe: <mailto:pbs-unsubscribe@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net> >>>>> PBS Forum latest: >>>>> https://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbsforum/index.php/… >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> pbs mailing list >>>> pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net >>>> https://lists.pacificbulbsociety.net/cgi-bin/… >>>> Unsubscribe: <mailto:pbs-unsubscribe@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net> >>>> PBS Forum latest: >>>> https://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbsforum/index.php/… >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> pbs mailing list >>> pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net >>> https://lists.pacificbulbsociety.net/cgi-bin/… >>> Unsubscribe: <mailto:pbs-unsubscribe@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net> >>> PBS Forum latest: >> https://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbsforum/index.php/… >> >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net >> https://lists.pacificbulbsociety.net/cgi-bin/… >> Unsubscribe: <mailto:pbs-unsubscribe@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net> >> PBS Forum latest: >> https://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbsforum/index.php/… >> > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net > https://lists.pacificbulbsociety.net/cgi-bin/… > Unsubscribe: <mailto:pbs-unsubscribe@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net> > PBS Forum https://… _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net https://lists.pacificbulbsociety.net/cgi-bin/… Unsubscribe: <mailto:pbs-unsubscribe@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net> PBS Forum https://…