All these horror stories of losing plants to bad compost has me worried. I used a local company from which I’ve purchased mulch, topsoil and sand. I mixed up some potting mix to plant an entire season of seedlings in larger pots. Now, I hope I didn’t kill the lot. I have some of the compost sifted and sitting in 55 gal cans. Can anyone detail the “cucumber test” mentioned in earlier post. Thanks Eric Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 18, 2023, at 10:26 AM, Joseph Gorman via pbs <pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net> wrote: > > Tim, > > I've had mixed experiences with municipal compost. When I lived near DC, > there was free "leaf mulch" they shredded in small batches and left at > transfer stations. It didn't get hot but never gave me any trouble with > trash, herbicides, weed seeds or pesticides. > > I tried municipal compost from a few smaller cities within about an hour > from me before I found any that seemed decent. Lots of rocks and plastic; > some of the composts I saw didn't resemble composted organic matter at all > and seemed more like dredged river sediment. Used one city's compost that > had industrial windrow machines and temperature logs and was happy with it > for a few years before I got a batch in 2018/2019/2020 that contained high > levels of an (aminopyralid?) herbicide, killing off thousands of square > feet of garden that still not even weeds will grow in. Some of the tree > service folks around here run their own composting operations, and I'd > trust their stuff a little more with regard to herbicides but less with > regard to temperature control. > > I don't currently mix most of my own potting mixes, but when I do I buy a > lot of the raw ingredients from a local potting soil mixer (Dirtcraft > Organics) or get custom mixes if I can get in on a group buy. Their compost > comes from hospital food waste in Charlotte, the nutrient balances are good > and the only weed seed I think ever came in through it was one productive > and delicious tomato plant. > > As for rice hulls, I've been trying them for a few years after they showed > up in Dirtcraft's seed starting mix. I don't repot often so I don't know if > they'll last as long as my soil mix needs to, but Cyclamen have been > happier in mixes with rice hulls than almost anything I've tried. Currently > a lot (like 3x) cheaper than perlite here. I've seen a few nurseries using > it as a top dressing for pots, haven't tried that myself. If anyone has > info on rice hull/perlite replacement ratios I'd love that info! > > I've switched from peat to coconut coir to mostly composted local forestry > waste for everything except carnivorous plants (and based on some advice > from a local grower, I'll switch them to coconut as soon as this bag runs > out), and it seems there's a shift from coir to more sustainable/local > stuff like forestry waste, peanut shells etc as nurserymen dial in their > formulae. Feeling the heartbreak of living in a place where 10,000+ acres > at a time of Lilium, Trillium, Cypripedium etc. get destroyed by > mountaintop removal coal mining, I'm trying to avoid using > stripmined/rainforest deforestation etc. materials in my growing media as > much as possible. > > -joe > > >> On Mon, Dec 18, 2023, 7:23 AM Tim Eck via pbs < >> pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net> wrote: >> >> Luckily they quietly took the bad stuff - arsenic - out of pressure treated >> wood a few decades ago when a demographic study (of well water in Formosa, >> I think) showed it was proportionally carcinogenic at all levels. Now, I >> think, they only use copper naphthenate for fungicide in pressure treating. >> Personally, I am banking on The American Chestnut Foundation (TACF) >> eventually solving the problem altogether because chestnut wood seems to >> persist untreated for decades in ground contact. >> For those interested, TACF has withdrawn its support for their transgenic >> chestnut, partially due to their dissatisfaction with the growth rate using >> a constitutive promoter (always on) for the OxO gene (destroys oxalic acid >> secreted by the blight fungus). But the departure from SUNY's deregulation >> request was precipitated by the discovery of a misidentification of the >> clone they were testing early in the program. TACF will continue >> investigating transgenic (but with wound induced promoters) as well as >> hybridizing and biocontrol. >> If anyone is interested in breeding blight resistant forest quality >> chestnut trees, I have (free) seed for the final generation of a breeding >> program I have been working on for a few decades. The ideal plot would be >> about two acres of well-drained cornfield. >> Tim >> >> >> On Sun, Dec 17, 2023 at 9:29 PM Laura Grant via pbs < >> pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net> wrote: >> >>> We had a bad experience with composted " pine bark" delivered by a local >>> supplier. After most of the truck load was spread around the favorite >>> plants we noticed some losses. When we came to the bottom of the pile we >>> found labels that read "pressure treated". >>> Laura >>> >>> On Sun, Dec 17, 2023 at 3:33 PM Jan Jeddeloh via pbs < >>> pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net> wrote: >>> >>>> I used to get tree trimmer waste at my old place. Some of those tree >>>> trimmers also do some maintenance and I once got a load that that >> wasn’t >>>> straight trees. It was filled with crap from blowing off parking lots >>>> etc. I learned my lesson. Always ask what’s in the truck before they >>> dump. >>>> >>>> Jan >>>> >>>>> On Dec 17, 2023, at 12:23 PM, Arnold Trachtenberg via pbs < >>>> pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> We had the company deliver a load of compost to our community garden >>> and >>>> it was full of debris and garbage from street pick up. >>>>> I've never seen any lab work on the compost they sell. It may be >>> tested >>>> different in CA, but not here in NJ. >>>>> I can imagine the petrochemicals, heavy metals and brake lining >> debris >>>> picked up when leaves are vacuumed up in the fall from our streets. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Arnold >>>>> >>>>> On Sunday, December 17, 2023 at 02:54:59 PM EST, Tim Eck via pbs < >>>> pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Good point. I knew it got hot enough to kill most pathogens but was >>> not >>>>> aware it decomposes pesticides. I rather doubt it destroys those >>>>> organo-halide bonds but they aren't so common anymore. >>>>> >>>>> On Sun, Dec 17, 2023 at 2:38 PM Nan Sterman via pbs < >>>>> pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Municipal composters all have to adhere to very strict ISO >>> requirements >>>>>> and test regularly. They all hot compost and at the hot compost >> temps, >>>>>> pesticides and pathogens break down so they are not a concern. The >>>> testing >>>>>> is their - and you - assurance of that. All that testing is >> intended >>> to >>>>>> ensure there are no problems with the municipal composts. I am >>> actually >>>>>> more concerned about using compost from non regulated facilities >> like >>>>>> nurseries. >>>>>> >>>>>> Nan >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from my eye eye phone. All typos are the captain’s fault. >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Dec 17, 2023, at 11:21 AM, Jane McGary via pbs < >>>>>> pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> As Mark mentioned, municipal compost in this area includes lawn >>>>>> clippings, and I don't use it either for fear of herbicide residue. >> I >>> do >>>>>> use a mulch containing compost, but the company that provides it >> tests >>>> the >>>>>> ingredients for residual harmful chemicals. I like to use a minor >>>>>> proportion of organic material in bulb potting mix, and most >> recently >>> I >>>>>> bought bags of "garden topsoil" from certified organic sources for >>> this >>>>>> purpose. The main things I avoid are bark, which appears to be >>> attacked >>>> by >>>>>> a fungus with visible mycelia that can also attack the tunics of >>> dormant >>>>>> bulbs, and perlite and vermiculite, which have no value to the >> plants >>>> and >>>>>> tend to rise to the top; the latter are also said to be dangerous if >>> you >>>>>> inhale the dust. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> When I started growing bulbs seriously around 1990, I had a country >>>>>> place with an alder woodland on part of it (alders are nitrogen >>>> fixers). I >>>>>> screened the topsoil to make up part of the bulb mix, along with >>> ground >>>>>> pumice and coarse upriver sand. This worked very well and there >> seemed >>>> to >>>>>> be no problem with disease, even though the leafmold surely >> contained >>>> all >>>>>> sorts of microorganisms. I did not use this mix for seed sowing, but >>>>>> instead used peat as a minor component. I think sterilizing seed >> soil >>> is >>>>>> pointless unless you can maintain laboratory conditions, since >> spores, >>>>>> etc., will arrive in the air. I used to grow Meconopsis by >>>> surface-sowing >>>>>> on milled sphagnum moss (not peat) as a preventive measure, but >> since >>>>>> moving to a place where that genus doesn't grow well, I gave that >> up. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Probably the hardy, summer-dormant bulbs I grow are not as >> vulnerable >>>> to >>>>>> disease as the tropical and subtropical species some PBS members >> have. >>>>>> Surplus bulbs that I've removed to the garden mostly flourish there >>>> despite >>>>>> weekly irrigation in most places. It has always seemed to me that >>>>>> cultivating these plants as "hard" as they can tolerate results in >>>>>> healthier populations that appear in character. Coming to bulb >> growing >>>> from >>>>>> the perspective of alpine and rock gardening is no doubt an >> influence. >>>> My >>>>>> bulb house is very like an alpine house, but not even minimally >>>> frost-free. >>>>>> Many PBS members might despair at a situation where South African >>> bulbs >>>> and >>>>>> tropical amaryllids can't be grown, but I like the relative freedom >> of >>>> this >>>>>> kind of gardening. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Jane McGary, Portland, Oregon, USA >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 12/17/2023 8:18 AM, Robert Lauf via pbs wrote: >>>>>>>> Regarding arborist debris, I'd be curious to know whether the >>> kinds >>>> of >>>>>> bacteria and fungi inhabiting half-dead trees would present a >> problem >>> to >>>>>> bulbs or if they are sufficiently host-specific that they are >> harmless >>>> in >>>>>> potting media. For all I know, they might be the same microbes >>> working >>>> in >>>>>> composters. >>>>>>>> Any mycologists out there who could weigh in on this? >>>>>>>> Bob Zone 7 >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> pbs mailing list >>>>>>>> pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net >>>>>>>> https://lists.pacificbulbsociety.net/cgi-bin/… >>>>>>>> Unsubscribe: <mailto:pbs-unsubscribe@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net >>> >>>>>>>> PBS Forum latest: >>>>>> https://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbsforum/index.php/… >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> pbs mailing list >>>>>>> pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net >>>>>>> https://lists.pacificbulbsociety.net/cgi-bin/… >>>>>>> Unsubscribe: <mailto:pbs-unsubscribe@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net> >>>>>>> PBS Forum latest: >>>>>> https://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbsforum/index.php/… >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> pbs mailing list >>>>>> pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net >>>>>> https://lists.pacificbulbsociety.net/cgi-bin/… >>>>>> Unsubscribe: <mailto:pbs-unsubscribe@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net> >>>>>> PBS Forum latest: >>>>>> https://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbsforum/index.php/… >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> pbs mailing list >>>>> pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net >>>>> https://lists.pacificbulbsociety.net/cgi-bin/… >>>>> Unsubscribe: <mailto:pbs-unsubscribe@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net> >>>>> PBS Forum latest: >>>> https://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbsforum/index.php/… >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> pbs mailing list >>>>> pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net >>>>> https://lists.pacificbulbsociety.net/cgi-bin/… >>>>> Unsubscribe: <mailto:pbs-unsubscribe@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net> >>>>> PBS Forum latest: >>>> https://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbsforum/index.php/… >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> pbs mailing list >>>> pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net >>>> https://lists.pacificbulbsociety.net/cgi-bin/… >>>> Unsubscribe: <mailto:pbs-unsubscribe@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net> >>>> PBS Forum latest: >>>> https://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbsforum/index.php/… >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> pbs mailing list >>> pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net >>> https://lists.pacificbulbsociety.net/cgi-bin/… >>> Unsubscribe: <mailto:pbs-unsubscribe@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net> >>> PBS Forum latest: >>> https://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbsforum/index.php/… >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net >> https://lists.pacificbulbsociety.net/cgi-bin/… >> Unsubscribe: <mailto:pbs-unsubscribe@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net> >> PBS Forum latest: >> https://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbsforum/index.php/… >> > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net > https://lists.pacificbulbsociety.net/cgi-bin/… > Unsubscribe: <mailto:pbs-unsubscribe@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net> > PBS Forum https://… _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net https://lists.pacificbulbsociety.net/cgi-bin/… Unsubscribe: <mailto:pbs-unsubscribe@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net> PBS Forum https://…