I'm not sure how to supply a link to the archive, but I posted this last month. I think it bears on the current discussion: "Virtually all the plants we grow have entered cultivation from the wild at some point. Somehow I don't think the Chinese would smile upon their botanical heritage being exported without state regulation, regardless of whether it was directly wild collected or propagated first. I share a similar concern to Jane's about the resale of directly wild collected plants but laws and treaties mostly do not distinguish nursery propagated plants or seeds from those that are of direct wild origin. CITES is a prime example of this bureaucratic failure. *Country of origin nurseries should be supported and prodded to improve quality and availability by doing more propagation. A lack of horticultural acumen in such countries is what keeps wild pillaging going.* A flood of knowledge and outreach helps to raise all boats, as they say." (emphasis mine). This notion supports both selfish anthropocentric (ex situ) conservation and "altruistic" biological (in situ) conservation. Dylan * *