Dear Jim, Both your extensive and interesting comments and those of others this week reminds me of the days when I used to grow a number of both the herbaceous (not sure if that's the right term) as well as the tree kinds. In north-western Europe they flourished and, with the notable exception of the moutan, P. suffructicosa, they all bloomed superbly. The displays lasted for many weeks in that cool climate. The ground was limey which, as you noted, suited their requirements well, particularly when top-dressed annually with horse manure. The tree species such as P. lutea ssp. ludlowi performed very well, growing over 6 feet tall and blooming reliably. All specimens of the moutan, in many garden varieties, grew slowly, as they do everywhere. However, it flowered infrequently for me. I tend to subscribe to the explanation of wet winters and mild climates being the cause, as pointed out here earlier. In eastern and south-eastern England, where winters may be a little colder but are certainly drier than those of Ireland, they bloomed far better. P. suffructicosa, in southwest China, has a cold, dry winter and a warm, monsoon-dominated summer. I believe this species is really not well suited to container culture - its fleshy roots want to wander and it would need considerable attention in summer to keep it happy, not to speak of the need for a large container. But, unless she were to grow it under cover in winter, I don't think Mary Sue would be able to get this gorgeous species to bloom. I now live in a drier, warmer climate, indeed in a rather dry one. Of those peonies that prefer moisture in winter rather than in summer I may want to try some of the mediterranean species mentioned in your messages, Jim. As of now, I cannot grow even the native P. californica. Believe me, I have failed more than once! It demands more chill and more winter rain than we get near the coastline. Here is a shot taken in mid-March of it blooming a mere twelve miles further inland where frosts are more frequent and rainfall is greater than what we get here: http://flickr.com/photos/andrewrmw/…. This year we've had 11 inches since July 1, an unusually wet year; in Poway to the east they've had 21 inches at the site I checked. But, it grows more abundantly at higher elevations where winters are both colder and wetter. So, it takes all sorts! Andrew San Diego -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of James Waddick Sent: Friday, April 08, 2011 7:59 AM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: [pbs] Paeonia on the Pacific Coast/ Dear PBSers, My earlier suggestions to Mary Sue regarded Peony species suited to mild climates. Most growers concentrate on the hundreds of selections of P. lactiflora. This is a species that demands cold climates for its dormant buds to develop fully in many hours of near and below freezing temps. These common northern climate garden peonies can easily be grown well into Canada, Scandinavia and many northern countries. Gardeners in southern climates miss this extravagant spring display*. The Mediterranean species are less well know and less grown. Few people realize that at least one and possibly more species are found in North Africa and another dozen species are Mediterranean. (See "The Book of Mediterranean Peonies" by G.L. Osti). These do not demand extended cold dormancy and should do well on milder climates. Then there are hybrids of these species which also fit into milder climates. Although P. mascula is an easy to find and grow species, these are all subject to "micro-climates" including variation in soils. Generally peonies do not flourish in sandy soils and prefer clay soils, generally peonies prefer alkaline conditions, not acid, generally they prefer good drainage, not wet conditions, but some species are far more tolerant of these variables. A couple I'd sure recommend include P. mascula since it is one of the more wide spread and possible more tolerant of variable conditions, P. peregrina, P. cambessdessii ( the 'Queen' of the smaller 'rock garden' type species), even P. officiinalis, tenuifolia and mlokosewtischii are all Mediterranean in nature. Some species that are more demandingly Mediterranean ( i.e. milder climates, seasonal rainfall etc) are such less common species as P. parnassica, P. turcica, P. broteroi, clusii, rhodia etc. And let us not forget that there are two native Pacific Coast species well suited to cultivation. Although their flowers are of marginal garden decor, the foliage is striking and much appreciated (P. brownii and P. californica). As you get farther north on the Pacific Coast, the options improve greatly (see Pacific Rim Native Plant offerings in Brit. Col. ) And finally all the wild tree peony species originate in SW China and do well in relatively milder climates. They are not Mediterranean, but in many garden situations they should do quite well. So Mary Sue may have had mixed results with P. mascula, but there is a broad palette available to adventurous gardeners on the Pacific Coast. Best Jim W. * Not wanting to rub it in to mild climate growers, but my rough , cold, climate is ideal for many traditional peonies. I expect to see bloom on early species such as P. peregrina, mlokosewitschii, tenuifolia and tree peonies in a few weeks. Dozens more lactiflora selections, hybrids and intersectional peonies will extend the season for 6 to 7 weeks of continuous bloom. It will be heavenly through May. Tree peonies start in mid-April and continue for a month from early species to later hybrids. Glorious. -- Dr. James W. Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 USA Ph. 816-746-1949 Zone 5 Record low -23F Summer 100F +