I think you can buy one at greenhouse supply companies for a lot less than that - here's one at Charley's for < $50 (plus shipping etc.) http://charleysgreenhouse.com/index.cfm/… 515&s=opener&cid1=1010&cid2=315&cid3=-99 Lin in Texas -----Original Message----- From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Adam Fikso Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2009 1:40 PM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: Re: [pbs] pbs Digest, Vol 72, Issue 27 Re the McKenny coldframe: It shouldn't be too difficult to rig a temperature-controlled thermostatic switch, motor and gears to to raise and lower it as needed. Then one could reduce checking to once a week, or occasionally. It might even be done for under $300 (guess).Considering the investment in bulbs and seedlkings already, there might be a reasonable risk/benefit ratio. ----- Original Message ----- From: <pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org> To: <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2009 3:26 AM Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 72, Issue 27 > Send pbs mailing list submissions to > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > pbs-owner@lists.ibiblio.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of pbs digest..." > > > List-Post:<mailto:pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> > List-Archive:<http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist/> > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Membership renewal (Pat Colville) > 2. Re: Plant exchange options (Justin Smith) > 3. membership payments (Arnold Trachtenberg) > 4. Re: membership payments (Theladygardens@aol.com) > 5. Re: membership payments (Arnold Trachtenberg) > 6. Re: Plant exchange options (Laura & Dave) > 7. protected cold frame (Kathleen Sayce) > 8. Re: Plant exchange options (Dennis Kramb) > 9. Re: Plant exchange options (Diane Whitehead) > 10. Plant exchanges (WDA) > 11. Re: Fw: Greentours San Diego Flora (Marguerite English) > 12. Re: Plant exchange options (Mark BROWN) > 13. Re: Membership renewal (Ruth Bierhoff) > 14. Re: Membership renewal (Ruth Bierhoff) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 12:18:37 -0800 > From: Pat Colville <Pat.Colville@JHResearchUSA.com> > Subject: Re: [pbs] Membership renewal > To: "Pacific Bulb Society" <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> > Message-ID: > <30909A06CD1CB64EA29DF0A811DF70C001708BC3@mvhmail3.USA.hardie.win> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Hello Ruth: Your membership is good until the end of this year. I will > get the corrected records to Dell > > Pat Colville > PBS Membership Director > 1555 washburn R. > Pasadena, CA 91105 > Tel: 909- 349-2933 > Fax 909- 427-0634 > ? > "THIS DOCUMENT IS INTENDED FOR THE USE OF THE PARTY TO WHOM IT IS > ADDRESSED AND MAY CONTAIN INFORMATION THAT IS CONFIDENTIAL"? If you are > not the intended recipient and have received this document in error , > please return it to the originator and ensure its destruction. Any > dissemination or copying of this document and its attachments by any one > other than the addressee is strictly prohibited. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] > On Behalf Of Ruth Bierhoff > Sent: Monday, January 19, 2009 9:52 AM > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Subject: Re: [pbs] Membership renewal > > Hi Dell, > To the best of my knowledge my membership is good to Jan 1/2010. I became > a > new member in October 2008. If I need to renew anyway, please let me know. > Thanks, > Ruth Bierhoff > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dell Sherk" <ds429@comcast.net> > To: "'Adam Fikso'" <adam14113@ameritech.net>; "Annalee" > <pasogal@ameritech.net>; "Cathy Craig" <CathyCraigEA@hotmail.com>; > <DavBouch5@aol.com>; "Douglas Westfall" <eagle85@flash.net>; "General PBS > forum" <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>; "John Lonsdale" <john@johnlonsdale.net>; > "'Macfarlane'" <macfarla@almaden.ibm.com>; "'Mark'" <Antennaria@aol.com>; > "'Mark Wilcox'" <marque219@yahoo.com>; "'Pat Colville'" > <Pat.Colville@JHResearchUSA.com>; "The Masterson Family" > <masterson4@cox.net> > Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2009 3:00 PM > Subject: [pbs] Membership renewal > > >> Hi All, >> >> It is a new year, and some of you still have not renewed your PBS >> membership >> by paying your dues for 2009. If you want to keep getting the treasures >> that >> the PBS BX has to offer, renew right away. Go to the website: >> http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/ >> >> Best wishes, >> Dell >> >> Dell Sherk, PBS BX >> >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/ >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/ > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 14:20:42 -0600 > From: Justin Smith <oothal@hotmail.com> > Subject: Re: [pbs] Plant exchange options > To: <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> > Message-ID: <BAY124-W2B1867F843A5D20BF40FEDED30@phx.gbl> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" > > > Recently they have been accessing fines and penalties to the importer for > the actions of> the exporter. Under the current legal system the > government has been winning> cases of the importer not preparing the > exporter sufficiently or ensuring> that the appropriate documents are in > the shipment and the rewarding the> importer with stiff financial > penalties. ?> > > > Hi all, > > Seems like all you have to do is send a email to anyone you buy seed from. > Enclose a link to the USDA website and state something like. > > "You must follow all rules and regulations stated in the website I have > provided a link to." > > > I think that would just about be the best you could do to CYA. > > or > > Make it so each email you send has a EULA. > > Before reading email you must agree to follow all rules and regulations > set forth by the USDA. LOL > > Justin > Woodville, TX 8b/9a > _________________________________________________________________ > Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. > http://windowslive.com/explore/… > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 17:03:18 -0500 > From: Arnold Trachtenberg <arnold@nj.rr.com> > Subject: [pbs] membership payments > To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> > Message-ID: <4974F8A6.7060904@nj.rr.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > There has been a flurry of activity following Dell's note on 2009 dues. > > I would ask that if you pay via PayPal indicate in the 'comment section' > that this is for 2009 dues. > > If you pay via check write in the memo section '2009 dues'. > > Thank you for supporting the Pacific Bulb Society. > > Arnold Trachtenberg > Treasurer PBS > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 17:10:32 EST > From: Theladygardens@aol.com > Subject: Re: [pbs] membership payments > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Message-ID: <d45.3afdf153.36a65458@aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > Just to let you know Arnold, there was no comment section when I paid. I > looked for it, that's why I sent you an e-mail explaining. > I thought there was always a comment section but wasn't this time. > Carolyn > **************Inauguration '09: Get complete coverage from the nation's > capital.(http://www.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000027) > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 17:18:42 -0500 > From: Arnold Trachtenberg <arnold@nj.rr.com> > Subject: Re: [pbs] membership payments > To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> > Message-ID: <4974FC42.9040104@nj.rr.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Carolyn: > > Thanks for the note. I'll have a look. I never use Paypal, my email > address is linked to the PBS account. > > Arnold > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 14:22:15 -0800 > From: Laura & Dave <toadlily@olywa.net> > Subject: Re: [pbs] Plant exchange options > To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> > Message-ID: <4974FD17.3010509@olywa.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > > An idea I've had that would help greatly is if there were > instructions/conditions in as many languages as possible. The > appropriate translated document could be sent with orders and > all the rest of the documentation. It would be great if this > was available on the APHIS website, but a bit much to expect > considering their already strapped budget. Perhaps we as a > group could take on the project I'm sure there are many > languages represented here, and enough people to proofread the > translations. Whether we would/could make the translated > documents available, or give them to the government to post is > an issue to be resolved. I know that it would help to be able > to send instructions that are understood at the exporters' end, > as I've had Jim's experience myself. I speak enough Spanish to > travel and converse, but I have some difficulty with more > technical and legal documents. I'm sure it is the same for many > people who "speak" English. Heck, I have trouble with legal > documents in English, even as a native speaker! > > > > Dave Brastow - Tumwater, Washington -usa- > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 14:22:10 -0800 > From: Kathleen Sayce <ksayce@willapabay.org> > Subject: [pbs] protected cold frame > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Message-ID: <F28126E3-538C-4FCE-ACF3-465BF2BCA5FB@willapabay.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed > > OK, Jim, I'll bite. Tell us more about this protected cold frame. > What is it made of, how deeply do you set it in the ground, what is > the glazing? Internal height? Do you use insulation around the > outside? Gravel base? Shade cloth in summer? How do you anchor the > glazing in high winds, etc? I ran a commercial greenhouse for years, > and so have held off going anywhere close to that direction for the > past decade in my own garden, but having given in to the dark side > and admitting that I adore geophyte (by joining PBS), I am now > looking at how to grow those species that can't take zone 8 conditions. > Details, please. > Kathleen > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 18:14:50 -0500 > From: Dennis Kramb <dkramb@badbear.com> > Subject: Re: [pbs] Plant exchange options > To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> > Message-ID: <4975096A.6070700@badbear.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Tim Harvey wrote: >> I can't help but wonder why you're a member of this list ... > Agreed!!! The reference to our annual plant, seed and bulb exchange > was most amusing. :-) > > Dennis in Cincinnati, accused smuggler & threat to homeland security... > apparently? lol. (checking the calendar to make sure it's not April 1.) > > >> > Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 08:25:35 -0500> From: aley_wd@mac.com> To: >> > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> Subject: [pbs] Plant exchange options> > Hi >> > Peter,> As a "lurker" to the PBS web dialog,I always find the >> > conversation threads about plant exchanges interesting and when the >> > annual plant, seed and bulb exchange starts to go full swing I think >> > that it's important to remind the group about > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 15:29:56 -0800 > From: Diane Whitehead <voltaire@islandnet.com> > Subject: Re: [pbs] Plant exchange options > To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> > Message-ID: <58095D09-4E09-4B53-A43B-605804529F61@islandnet.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes > > On 19-Jan-09, at 11:38 AM, Jim McKenney wrote: >> >> Bill, I hope we can count on you to keep before the rule makers the >> complete >> lack of control we as individual prospective importers have over the >> actions >> of the senders. > > It's not just stuff coming in to the U.S., and it is not just non- > English speakers. > > I could not get a U.S. inspector to write one sentence on my phyto > that I knew was essential. He couldn't see it in the rule book he was > looking in, so refused. When I got to the Canadian border, our > inspector phoned him to fax a new phyto with that sentence added. I > was the one who had to hang around waiting for the new paperwork. At > least I didn't get charged another $23 for the second phyto. > > Diane Whitehead > Victoria, B.C., Canada > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 18:49:44 -0500 > From: WDA <aley_wd@mac.com> > Subject: [pbs] Plant exchanges > To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> > Message-ID: <61819883451772744765254076209836199117-Webmail@me.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Sorry If I ruffled feathers. I'm not accusing anyone of doing anything > wrong. I just thought it helpful to be educated in what the restrictions > are and how to work within systems. > If my presence within this forum is unwelcome I'll keep my fingers silent. > Just trying to help. Perhaps I'll find another forum to participate with. > Take care folks. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 11 > Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 18:05:52 -0800 > From: Marguerite English <meenglis@meenglis.cts.com> > Subject: Re: [pbs] Fw: Greentours San Diego Flora > To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> > Message-ID: <49753180.6000504@meenglis.cts.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Sorry all. I wanted to correct my error, but have been having computer > problems. Cuyamaca Park ends at about 3500 feet; then it is Cleveland > Natl forest that drops down into the community of Alpine, Ca. So > sorry for the error. > > All the Manzanitas shrubs popped into bloom last week, so the first > blooms are showing. Yea! > > Marguerite English wrote: >> >> Actually, Cuyamaca state park drops all the way down to Alpine, Ca., >> which is about 3000 ft alt. I live at 3700 ft, right under Mt. >> Cuyamaca on the southwest slope. We had snow on the peak through >> Christmas week; but that has now melted. We often get a few days of snow >> at this altitude during the 1st 3 months of the year, with a lot of rain >> and wind. It is definitely winter here at least through Feb. First few >> early bloom begins in late Feb. Apr-May have the best display. We have >> even had occasional snow on Easter. >> >> I do know the native herbaceous plants on this side of Cuyamaca. Most >> of my lists belong to pressed plants I gathered near my home when the SD >> Natural History Museum started its program to fill its herbarium with >> recent samples gathered by local residents. I could share that with folks >> who don't gather from the wild if anyone is interested. >> >> > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 12 > Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 08:43:24 +0100 (CET) > From: Mark BROWN <brown.mark@wanadoo.fr> > Subject: Re: [pbs] Plant exchange options > To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> > Message-ID: <4874805.13320.1232437404741.JavaMail.www@wwinf1c23> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > > I would gladly take on the french version for you. > > > > >> Message du 19/01/09 23:22 >> De : "Laura & Dave" >> A : "Pacific Bulb Society" >> Copie ? : >> Objet : Re: [pbs] Plant exchange options >> >> >> >> An idea I've had that would help greatly is if there were >> instructions/conditions in as many languages as possible. The >> appropriate translated document could be sent with orders and >> all the rest of the documentation. It would be great if this >> was available on the APHIS website, but a bit much to expect >> considering their already strapped budget. Perhaps we as a >> group could take on the project I'm sure there are many >> languages represented here, and enough people to proofread the >> translations. Whether we would/could make the translated >> documents available, or give them to the government to post is >> an issue to be resolved. I know that it would help to be able >> to send instructions that are understood at the exporters' end, >> as I've had Jim's experience myself. I speak enough Spanish to >> travel and converse, but I have some difficulty with more >> technical and legal documents. I'm sure it is the same for many >> people who "speak" English. Heck, I have trouble with legal >> documents in English, even as a native speaker! >> >> >> >> Dave Brastow - Tumwater, Washington -usa- >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/ >> >> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 13 > Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 04:16:38 -0500 > From: "Ruth Bierhoff" <email@ruthbierhoff.com> > Subject: Re: [pbs] Membership renewal > To: "Pacific Bulb Society" <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> > Message-ID: <7F096DEE79E84EE0BE910BD99BEEA69B@bierhoffcjj14d> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Thanks, Dell. Ruth > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dell Sherk" <ds429@comcast.net> > To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> > Sent: Monday, January 19, 2009 1:58 PM > Subject: Re: [pbs] Membership renewal > > >> Dear Ruth, >> >> According to my records, you are paid up until 1/10 >> >> Dell >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org >> [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] >> On Behalf Of Ruth Bierhoff >> Sent: Monday, January 19, 2009 12:52 PM >> To: Pacific Bulb Society >> Subject: Re: [pbs] Membership renewal >> >> Hi Dell, >> To the best of my knowledge my membership is good to Jan 1/2010. I became >> a >> new member in October 2008. If I need to renew anyway, please let me >> know. >> Thanks, >> Ruth Bierhoff >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Dell Sherk" <ds429@comcast.net> >> To: "'Adam Fikso'" <adam14113@ameritech.net>; "Annalee" >> <pasogal@ameritech.net>; "Cathy Craig" <CathyCraigEA@hotmail.com>; >> <DavBouch5@aol.com>; "Douglas Westfall" <eagle85@flash.net>; "General PBS >> forum" <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>; "John Lonsdale" <john@johnlonsdale.net>; >> "'Macfarlane'" <macfarla@almaden.ibm.com>; "'Mark'" <Antennaria@aol.com>; >> "'Mark Wilcox'" <marque219@yahoo.com>; "'Pat Colville'" >> <Pat.Colville@JHResearchUSA.com>; "The Masterson Family" >> <masterson4@cox.net> >> Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2009 3:00 PM >> Subject: [pbs] Membership renewal >> >> >>> Hi All, >>> >>> It is a new year, and some of you still have not renewed your PBS >>> membership >>> by paying your dues for 2009. If you want to keep getting the treasures >>> that >>> the PBS BX has to offer, renew right away. Go to the website: >>> http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/ >>> >>> Best wishes, >>> Dell >>> >>> Dell Sherk, PBS BX >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> pbs mailing list >>> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >>> http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >>> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/ >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/ >> >> > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 14 > Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 04:26:10 -0500 > From: "Ruth Bierhoff" <email@ruthbierhoff.com> > Subject: Re: [pbs] Membership renewal > To: "Pacific Bulb Society" <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> > Message-ID: <93E024BE6A194E7EA840BA0F336ECAAD@bierhoffcjj14d> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Thanks, Pat. Ruth > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Pat Colville" <Pat.Colville@JHResearchUSA.com> > To: "Pacific Bulb Society" <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> > Sent: Monday, January 19, 2009 3:18 PM > Subject: Re: [pbs] Membership renewal > > > Hello Ruth: Your membership is good until the end of this year. I will > get the corrected records to Dell > > Pat Colville > PBS Membership Director > 1555 washburn R. > Pasadena, CA 91105 > Tel: 909- 349-2933 > Fax 909- 427-0634 > > "THIS DOCUMENT IS INTENDED FOR THE USE OF THE PARTY TO WHOM IT IS > ADDRESSED > AND MAY CONTAIN INFORMATION THAT IS CONFIDENTIAL" If you are not the > intended recipient and have received this document in error , please > return > it to the originator and ensure its destruction. Any dissemination or > copying of this document and its attachments by any one other than the > addressee is strictly prohibited. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] > On Behalf Of Ruth Bierhoff > Sent: Monday, January 19, 2009 9:52 AM > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Subject: Re: [pbs] Membership renewal > > Hi Dell, > To the best of my knowledge my membership is good to Jan 1/2010. I became > a > new member in October 2008. If I need to renew anyway, please let me know. > Thanks, > Ruth Bierhoff > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dell Sherk" <ds429@comcast.net> > To: "'Adam Fikso'" <adam14113@ameritech.net>; "Annalee" > <pasogal@ameritech.net>; "Cathy Craig" <CathyCraigEA@hotmail.com>; > <DavBouch5@aol.com>; "Douglas Westfall" <eagle85@flash.net>; "General PBS > forum" <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>; "John Lonsdale" <john@johnlonsdale.net>; > "'Macfarlane'" <macfarla@almaden.ibm.com>; "'Mark'" <Antennaria@aol.com>; > "'Mark Wilcox'" <marque219@yahoo.com>; "'Pat Colville'" > <Pat.Colville@JHResearchUSA.com>; "The Masterson Family" > <masterson4@cox.net> > Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2009 3:00 PM > Subject: [pbs] Membership renewal > > >> Hi All, >> >> It is a new year, and some of you still have not renewed your PBS >> membership >> by paying your dues for 2009. If you want to keep getting the treasures >> that >> the PBS BX has to offer, renew right away. Go to the website: >> http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/ >> >> Best wishes, >> Dell >> >> Dell Sherk, PBS BX >> >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/ >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/ > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/ > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > End of pbs Digest, Vol 72, Issue 27 > *********************************** _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/