Hello David: > Please correct me someone if I am wrong but I was under the impression that the original 'Black Beauty' Black Beauty was a cross of L. henryi and L. speciosum--there being some confusion about which speciosum. To the best of my knowledge, it was diploid, not triploid, but simply did not produce functional gametes very often. It was hybridized by Leslie Woodriff as the only hybrid of 75,000 seedlings raised of L. speciosum. Dr. Robert Griesbach and LaVern Freeman, and possibly several other people also, converted Black Beauty to tetraploid. The tetraploid form was one of the foundations of the Orienpet group now becoming so popular. along with its sister seedling 'Damson' was a triploid. Damson is a "pink" (or magenta) trumpet lily, and is not related to Black Beauty, unless there is some L. henryi far back in its' ancestry. I believe it was originally raised by Oregon Bulb Farms as a dark selection of the 'Pink Perfection' strain, several years later than Black Beauty. It is diploid, not triploid, is fertile, and has itself been used in crosses with L. speciosum by Dr. Wilbert Ronald, resulting in Starburst Sensation, etc. Ken