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Today's Topics:

1. chinese cooking (piaba)
2. Re: Chinese cooking (James Waddick)
3. Walleria gracilis (Leo A. Martin)
4. Re: Chinese cooking (Jim McKenney)
5. Re: Chinese cooking and more (Dell Sherk)
6. Re: Chinese cooking and more (Nhu Nguyen)
7. Re: Chinese cooking (David Ehrlich)
8. Chilean/Andean Rhodophiala Dormancy Cycles? (David Maxwell)
9. Re: Chinese cooking (Jana Ulmer)
10. Re: Chinese Edible Plants (James Waddick)
11. Re: Chilean/Andean Rhodophiala Dormancy Cycles?
(Billthebulbbaron@aol.com)
12. Re: Chinese Edible Plants (David Ehrlich)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 13:19:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: piaba <piabinha@yahoo.com>
Subject: [pbs] chinese cooking
To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID: <408682.74302.qm@web51904.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

i know the subject line sounds a bit off topic, but i promise i'm talking
about some of our plants...

i was on one of my infrequent trips to chinatown today and i saw some
leafy vegetables in a sidewalk stand that looked somewhat
intriguing.? they were somewhat triangular leaves along a
stem.? i thought to myself, these look like Ipomoea leaves.?
i asked someone what they were, and she said they were sweet potato
leaves!? in my infinite ignorance, i never knew that sweet potato
leaves were edible.? of course i had heard of water spinach, which
is an Ipomoea, but a totally different one.

also, i have read that in china there's a garlic variety that produces
a bulb with a single clove.? does anyone know anything about this
garlic?? does it taste distinct from the "regular" kind?

=======

tsuh yang

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 16:01:59 -0500
From: James Waddick <jwaddick@kc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [pbs] Chinese cooking
To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <p0624087ac51028672cfc@[192.168.1.100]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"

Dear Tsuh Yang;
A topic of interest to me for botanic and culinary reasons.

Yes, sweet potato leaves (Ipomoea batatas) are edible and
you can google any number of recipes. Water spinach is I. aquatica,
and a very different taste. Years ago I was working at a zoo where we
raised plain old sweet potatoes in the basement under lights so we
could harvest the vines as a treat for the leaf eating Colobus
Monkeys in winter. It was a favorite.

One bulb garlic is one of my favorite vegetables in China.
Each bulb is nearly a perfect globe and usually less than an inch in
diameter. The flavor is like a rich, mild garlic. Very distinct.
They are often served stir fried by themselves or with a light sauce.
I have in the past sought out a US source and never found one, but I
imagine in they must be available in some Chinese shopping areas. I
can't recall if it is a cultivar or a different Allium species. In
the market they are sold pre-skinned at a slightly premium price.

Speaking of Oriental edible alliums. You may have come across
an items called "Pickled Leeks" also known as Rakkyo and pickled
shallots. These tiny bulbs are not readily identifiable as any of
these. They are common in Vietnamese and Thai markets, sold in small
tins or glass jars. A tasty condiment. See-

http://japanesefood.about.com/library/pictures/…

Of course in China, especially more remote areas, you will
find many familiar items on the menu and I've eaten stir fried
'Strawberry Begonia' (Saxafraga fortunei), Lilium davidii (a big crop
in Gansu Province) and even rhizomes of Houttuynia cordata (not
recommended). Stem lettuce or Celtuce is a common spring vegetable
in Central China. This is another delicious vegetable that certainly
deserves wider cultivation in the US although I've never seen it and
even seeds are not that easy to find.

You might ask around for one bulb garlic if you have a good
Chinese produce market. Beg and let me know if EVER!

Best Jim W.

--
Dr. James W. Waddick
8871 NW Brostrom Rd.
Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711
USA
Ph. 816-746-1949
Zone 5 Record low -23F
Summer 100F +

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 14:35:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Leo A. Martin" <leo@possi.org>
Subject: [pbs] Walleria gracilis
To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID: <3e451094384c36c1eceee8bde645ab3e.squirrel@http://www.possi.org/>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

A week or so ago this was discussed in relation to its sporadic appearance
- only some years.

I also got some of this seed the time Rachel offered it. In 2004 I planted
the seed, dividing the 15 seeds into 3 pots. Three sprouted in one of the
pots and none in the other two. The following year nothing came up in any
pot. The next year one plant came up in the pot that had sprouted before.
Last year again just the one plant sprouted. This spring I discarded the
other two pots.

A few weeks ago I decided to take out the Veltheimea seed pots and water
them. I store things alphabetically and I accidentally pulled out the
Walleria as well. Without realizing this I have been soaking it since. It
is in my kitchen windowsill since days here are still near 100 F / 38C
though nights are cooling to the 70s F / 23C. The Walleria has sprouted
and is much better looking than in previous years. I have not unpotted it
so I don't know how big is the tuber. I'm still hoping the other two might
be alive but I doubt it. Any idea if this is self-fertile?

Leo Martin
Phoenix Arizona USA

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 17:52:56 -0400
From: "Jim McKenney" <jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com>
Subject: Re: [pbs] Chinese cooking
To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <000901c927fd$e50fd900$2f01a8c0@Library>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"

Jim Waddick mentioned celtuce. Celtuce is nothing new in the US: it was
commonly sold a half century ago. This lettuce used to be in every seed
catalog when I was a kid, so I was surprised to read that it was now not
easily found. I checked several current general seed catalogs on hand
here,
and sure enough, not one listed celtuce. When I Googled ?celtuce seed?
there
were several hits, mostly from UK sources although there was at least one
US
source. I?ve never eaten celtuce, but I love the stems of other lettuces.
I?ll bet it?s available through the seed saver groups.

We have several Asian supermarkets right in this neighborhood, and there
is
a gigantic Asian supermarket which draws clientele from far and wide
between
here and Baltimore. I?ll try to get over there sometime soon to check for
one bulb garlic and lily bulbs. I?ll let everyone know what I find.

Jim McKenney

jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com

Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871? North, 77.09829? West, USDA
zone
7

My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com/

BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/

Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS

Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org/

Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org/

------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 18:28:33 -0400
From: "Dell Sherk" <dells@voicenet.com>
Subject: Re: [pbs] Chinese cooking and more
To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <20081006222848.2FA604C01E@lists.ibiblio.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Dear Jim and Tsuh Yang,

I have grown water spinach, Ipomoea aquatica, in the vegetable garden, so
it
doesn't need a lot of water. I have always been confused by reports that
"morning glories" are poisonous.

Houttuynia cordata --- this has been a menace in my herb garden where I
made
the mistake of planting it. It is very invasive, smells awful (not nearly
so
nice as cilantro which it is supposed to resemble) and cannot be weeded
out.
I resorted to painting each bit that sprouted, with an herbicide, but next
year will tell the tale.

On the subject of edible alliums, Allium tricoccum - ramps or wild leeks -
are a seasonal folk food in parts of West Virginia. I have eaten them
boiled
and could hardly recommend them except to those folks who are fond of
great
chunks of raw garlic - not exactly the same taste, but the same kind of
intensity. But I hear that they are being served as a delicacy in fine
restaurants. Does anyone know if it is possible to cultivate these bulbs?
I
have a source and would like to try.

Dell

------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 18:06:53 -0700
From: "Nhu Nguyen" <xerantheum@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [pbs] Chinese cooking and more
To: "Pacific Bulb Society" <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID:
<f41531280810061806s247a5f45p118388a1d0a7bdf5@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Hi Dell and all,

*Ipomoea aquatica* is an important vegetable in Vietnam where I was born.
It
is eaten widely by the poor because the plants grow vigorously in
waterways.
In some poor villages, it makes up the bulk of vegetable/foodstuff
consumed.
There are some nutrients like important vitamins that one can extract by
eating these plants. They are both eaten raw and cooked. Raw *I.
aquatica*has a very crispy texture and distinctive flavor. However,
there is fear
that the milky latex contain toxins and the plants have been shown to
accumulate toxic by products of biological activities such as waste/sewage
treatment. Another fear is that eating the raw tissue will give you an
intestinal fluke parasite called Fasciolopsis. It is common where pigs are
raised. The flukes will encyst on aquatic vegetation, waiting for the next
animal that chomps on those leaves. In the US it seems to be an invasive
weed where it is warm and wet.

*Houttuynia cordata* is also eaten in southern Vietnam, but only the
leaves
not rhizomes. The smell is very distinctive and to me it's quite different
from cilantro. It serves as an important herb condiment along with mint
and
Thai basil in Vietnamese cuisine. It has an interesting property of
partially preventing the blood from clothing. Herbalists take advantage of
this property and prescribe it for certain ailments. During war-time,
soldiers must be very careful to not eat these plants, which I'm told is
hard for some because it makes up an important part of the cuisine. I have
too made the mistake of planting these in the ground. The rhizomes go very
deep and you must dig very deep down and get every.single.piece in order
to
get rid of the plant.

*Allium tricoccum* is cultivated in many parts of the country and is
celebrated with it's own festival. It is native to the eastern US and
probably need a cold winter dormancy. I would like to grow it here in the
mild climate of central CA but have not been brave enough to try. Has
anyone
tried growing it in wild climates? It is sold here in the spring and is
one
of those items that dissappear quickly from the grocery special produce
shelf.

Thanks for these fascinating topics.

Nhu
Berkeley, CA, USA
-----
http://www.flickr.com/photos/xerantheum/

On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 3:28 PM, Dell Sherk <dells@voicenet.com> wrote:

------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 19:17:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: David Ehrlich <idavide@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [pbs] Chinese cooking
To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <797466.23556.qm@web81008.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

I do not know what bulb garlic is like, but for a few weeks only in the
springtime, in farmers markets here in the Bay Area, oriental farmers sell
a vegetable that I call spring garlic.? It is very similar in appearance
to scallions, but like mild garlic in flavor.? It's wonderful in omelets.?
I look forward to it every spring.
?
Celtuce is sold in season in oriental markets, such as the 99 Ranch
Markets.? I am quite fond of it, but thick stems can be woody.
?
Water spinach used to be sold in packages in ordinary supermarkets.? I
don?t know why they call it that ? it doesn?t look like or taste like
regular spinach.
?
If you have an East Asian neighborhood or market that you can go to, you
might find these vegetables you are fond of, but they are seasonal.

David Ehrlich

------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 20:39:16 -0700
From: "David Maxwell" <opbungalow@gmail.com>
Subject: [pbs] Chilean/Andean Rhodophiala Dormancy Cycles?
To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID:
<150371710810062039s4145db0bu82c077ff7ba05977@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Hi All,

I have a question for those Members who have grown...or at least attemped
growing...the Chilean/Andean species (R.splendens, R.rhodolirion,
R.andicola, R.phycelloides, R.advena, R.bagnoldii) of Rhodophiala from
seeds
before.

Did any/all of these species go into dormancy in their first year of
growth?

If so...about how many weeks after planting...and about how many weeks was
their dormancy?

My experience with Hippeastrum is that the seedlings grow continuously
throughout their first winter (May/June planting)...even at temperatures
in
the low 50sF...and they wouldn't go into a dormancy cycle until their
second
or even third winter (October/November).

I expected the same continuous growth from my Rhodophiala seedlings,
however, almost all species are dying back.

Well, except for the R.splendens and R.bagnoldii, which have sent up a
sturdy new leaf...if you can even call them that.

Since the watering & growing conditions have been the same for all
species,
I'm assuming that the other species are going into their dormancy
cycles...and hopefully not just being killed off by my either over or
under
watering them.

But I don't really know.

I'm continuing to sparingly water even the seedlings that I have died
(back)...with the hope that maybe they're not really
all-the-way-dead...just
taking a break.

But again, I don't really know...and I can't bring myself (yet) to dig one
up to see.

When they seem somewhat established, I switched from watering them
indirectly to watering them directly using a spray bottle.

Hopefully that wasn't the Kiss of Death.

With my Hippeastrum seedlings I always water indirectly by keeping all the
pots in plastic tubs and then pouring the water into the tubs and just let
it wick up through the growing medium, which is always 100% peat.

It was interesting that the type of potting medium I used with all these
species of Rhodophiala seeds seemed to make absolutely no difference in
germination.

I did test batches of seeds planted in 100% peat...in 100% super-fine (San
Francisco) sand...and in a gritty mix of sand, Perlite & aquatic plant
gravel with a little peat mixed in.

The germination ratios & growth rates were pretty much the
same...regardless
of which potting medium they were in.

Anyway, if anyone has had prior experience getting these species through
their first year of growth, I'd be interested to hear about it.

Thanks,

-d.

P.S. Ken (Amarguy), your B.josephinae is a spectacular inspiration...as
are
your intergeneric Amaryllis crosses!

Rock on...and cross on!

------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 20:56:45 -0700
From: Jana Ulmer <jsulmer@sonic.net>
Subject: Re: [pbs] Chinese cooking
To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <17479DB3-A4FE-4948-A9C4-95838D88201C@sonic.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes;
format=flowed

I am long time lurker on this list, but this off-topic discussion has
compelled me to post. I have grown a "lettuce" that may similar to
the celtuce that is being discussed. Seed is available from Fedco
(http://www.fedcoseeds.com/seeds/SeedsItem.php?
id=2731&SeedName=lettuce), and here is what they say:

2731CO Cracoviensis Lettuce OG (47 days) My absolute favorite of all
the lettuces Seed Savers curator M. Schultz has shared with me,
unlike any other in size, shape or colors. Cracoviensis is where the
red meets the green, making a dazzling twisting rosette with heavy
purple accenting, especially towards the center. Plants are fast
growing and very large. Although relatively rapid bolters, their
tender buttery flavor doesn?t give way to bitterness even after they
bolt. May be worth a try for over-wintering in warmer areas.
Customers in New Jersey and Massachusetts have reported success.
Listed as a distinct type, Asparagus Lettuce, in The Vegetable Garden
by Vilmorin-Andrieux (1885). Highly prized in China where they peel
and eat the thick fleshy stems like asparagus.

What I grew was indeed large and quick to bolt, had a thick fleshy
stem, and in no way tasted like asparagus. For us, it fell in the
"interesting" category, as opposed to the "really tasty" category,
but we never tried cooking it, maybe it would have been better that way.

In the allium arena, one that we do grow that is both tasty and
unusual is the I'itoi onion, which on the the Slow Foods "Ark of
Taste" list. You can read about it here:

http://slowfoodusa.org/index.php/programs/…
iitoi_onion/

I planted the small shallot-like bulbs individually and each quickly
made a small clump of onions which we used both as scallions and as
chives. When I say we used them as scallions, I mean that they were
roughly the size and shape of a green onion, without any "bulb"
formed at the bottom. The clumps went dormant in the summer, so I dug
them up, (again looking like small shallots) but before I got to cook
any in bulb form, they started growing again. So now they are all
planted and have formed clumps. When they go dormant again, which I
expect will be in early summer, I'd be happy to send some to the BX
if people here would like to try it.

Jana Ulmer
Sebastopol, CA

------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 00:09:13 -0500
From: James Waddick <jwaddick@kc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [pbs] Chinese Edible Plants
To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <p0624087ec5109ab9f808@[192.168.1.100]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"

Dear David and Jana,
Stem lettuce is not like a leaf lettuce at all and does not
form a head. Instead the central stem elongates sort of like an
inverted carrot - larger at the base and small as it goes up. To
prepare, you remove the leaves (don't know if they are edible like
lettuce leaves. Then peel the rough and sometime woody outer layer
until you reach the pale green smooth inner core. This can be sliced
in thin diagonal slices and stir fried, or chunks and added to soup.
Lots of other ways too.
There's a pic at http://www.kitazawaseed.com/seed_068-162.html
It does not taste like asparagus to me, nor celery. Very mild
and crunchy.

Lucky you. When is the season where you are?

It is usually grown in water as an aquatic plant.

The I'itoi onion looks sort of like a sprouted garlic bulb
and very interesting. Never heard of this one before, but must have
been an important native food, just to survive to this day.

A host of edible bulbs and tubers off the beaten track.

If anyone can find a source of one-bulb garlic, I'd love to
know. Anyone know an adventurous grower in Gilroy , the garlic
capital?

Thanks all. Jim W.
--
Dr. James W. Waddick
8871 NW Brostrom Rd.
Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711
USA
Ph. 816-746-1949
Zone 5 Record low -23F
Summer 100F +

------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 11:43:08 EDT
From: Billthebulbbaron@aol.com
Subject: Re: [pbs] Chilean/Andean Rhodophiala Dormancy Cycles?
To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID: <cbb.26016505.361cdd8c@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

In a message dated 10/6/08 8:40:25 PM, opbungalow@gmail.com writes:

yes, the dormancy is normal for these in my experience. glad you had
success eith R splendens, this has germinated poorly with me

(PLEASE note new address & phone/fax numbers below Thanks!)
ALSO, I now sell Oxblood Lilies (Texas Red--also--the PINK), as well as
Freesia alba & the Texas form of Gladiolus byzantinus...see Availability
List

Best wishes,

Bill the Bulb Baron
http://www.billthebulbbaron.com/
William R.P. Welch

Please make all checks payable to William R.P. Welch, and use my NEW
address:
1031-B Cayuga Street, Santa Cruz, CA 95062, USA

New phone numbers as well:
Phone (831) 236-8397
fax ONLY (831) 426-4915--HOWEVER I much prefer orders etc placed WITHIN an
email (NOT as an attachment) COMPARED to fax as I don't know yet how to
transfer
fax text over on to my computer where I need it--thanks!

------------------------------

Message: 12
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 09:35:56 -0700 (PDT)
From: David Ehrlich <idavide@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [pbs] Chinese Edible Plants
To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <8077.44318.qm@web81002.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Dear James,

The leaves on celtuce are edible; there are forms with large leaves making
the stem/plant look like a head of romaine.? I've seen these on the
internet, but never at any market.? When I buy celtuce at the Asian
markets, all the stem leaves, such as they may have been, have been
removed, but the few leaves at the top of the stalk are left in place --
they are rather coarse, but they do taste like a kind of lettuce.

I live on the S.F. Peninsula, but there are Asian markets all up and down
coastal California.? Celtuce is available late spring - summer

On the internet I found?two California and one Canadian distributors of
seed -- some even with several varieties

While the varietal name is asparagina (Lactuca sativa asparagina), and it
is called both asparagus lettuce and celery lettuce, it does not taste
like either, nor does it make your urine smell.

Water Spinach:? I understand the water part; what I don't understand is
the spinach part.? It tastes as much like spinach as the above like
asparagus.? It doesn't look like spinach either.

David Ehrlich

------------------------------

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End of pbs Digest, Vol 69, Issue 6
**********************************