Last year, Trader Joes sold single cloves of garlic. They were about 1 1/2" in diameter. They were sold 2 to a package on a small wicker tray. I planted one and I got what looked liked a regular head of garlic with many cloves. The single head of garlic was very mild. I have not found them this year at Trader Joes. Dianne Martinelli Concord, California Zone 9 ----- Original Message ----- From: <pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org> To: <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 9:35 AM Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 69, Issue 6 > Send pbs mailing list submissions to > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > pbs-owner@lists.ibiblio.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of pbs digest..." > > > List-Post:<mailto:pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> > List-Archive:<http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist/> > > Today's Topics: > > 1. chinese cooking (piaba) > 2. Re: Chinese cooking (James Waddick) > 3. Walleria gracilis (Leo A. Martin) > 4. Re: Chinese cooking (Jim McKenney) > 5. Re: Chinese cooking and more (Dell Sherk) > 6. Re: Chinese cooking and more (Nhu Nguyen) > 7. Re: Chinese cooking (David Ehrlich) > 8. Chilean/Andean Rhodophiala Dormancy Cycles? (David Maxwell) > 9. Re: Chinese cooking (Jana Ulmer) > 10. Re: Chinese Edible Plants (James Waddick) > 11. Re: Chilean/Andean Rhodophiala Dormancy Cycles? > (Billthebulbbaron@aol.com) > 12. Re: Chinese Edible Plants (David Ehrlich) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 13:19:26 -0700 (PDT) > From: piaba <piabinha@yahoo.com> > Subject: [pbs] chinese cooking > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Message-ID: <408682.74302.qm@web51904.mail.re2.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > i know the subject line sounds a bit off topic, but i promise i'm talking > about some of our plants... > > > > i was on one of my infrequent trips to chinatown today and i saw some > leafy vegetables in a sidewalk stand that looked somewhat > intriguing.? they were somewhat triangular leaves along a > stem.? i thought to myself, these look like Ipomoea leaves.? > i asked someone what they were, and she said they were sweet potato > leaves!? in my infinite ignorance, i never knew that sweet potato > leaves were edible.? of course i had heard of water spinach, which > is an Ipomoea, but a totally different one. > > > > also, i have read that in china there's a garlic variety that produces > a bulb with a single clove.? does anyone know anything about this > garlic?? does it taste distinct from the "regular" kind? > > ======= > > tsuh yang > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 16:01:59 -0500 > From: James Waddick <jwaddick@kc.rr.com> > Subject: Re: [pbs] Chinese cooking > To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> > Message-ID: <p0624087ac51028672cfc@[192.168.1.100]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" > > Dear Tsuh Yang; > A topic of interest to me for botanic and culinary reasons. > > Yes, sweet potato leaves (Ipomoea batatas) are edible and > you can google any number of recipes. Water spinach is I. aquatica, > and a very different taste. Years ago I was working at a zoo where we > raised plain old sweet potatoes in the basement under lights so we > could harvest the vines as a treat for the leaf eating Colobus > Monkeys in winter. It was a favorite. > > One bulb garlic is one of my favorite vegetables in China. > Each bulb is nearly a perfect globe and usually less than an inch in > diameter. The flavor is like a rich, mild garlic. Very distinct. > They are often served stir fried by themselves or with a light sauce. > I have in the past sought out a US source and never found one, but I > imagine in they must be available in some Chinese shopping areas. I > can't recall if it is a cultivar or a different Allium species. In > the market they are sold pre-skinned at a slightly premium price. > > Speaking of Oriental edible alliums. You may have come across > an items called "Pickled Leeks" also known as Rakkyo and pickled > shallots. These tiny bulbs are not readily identifiable as any of > these. They are common in Vietnamese and Thai markets, sold in small > tins or glass jars. A tasty condiment. See- > > http://japanesefood.about.com/library/pictures/… > > Of course in China, especially more remote areas, you will > find many familiar items on the menu and I've eaten stir fried > 'Strawberry Begonia' (Saxafraga fortunei), Lilium davidii (a big crop > in Gansu Province) and even rhizomes of Houttuynia cordata (not > recommended). Stem lettuce or Celtuce is a common spring vegetable > in Central China. This is another delicious vegetable that certainly > deserves wider cultivation in the US although I've never seen it and > even seeds are not that easy to find. > > You might ask around for one bulb garlic if you have a good > Chinese produce market. Beg and let me know if EVER! > > > Best Jim W. > > -- > Dr. James W. Waddick > 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. > Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 > USA > Ph. 816-746-1949 > Zone 5 Record low -23F > Summer 100F + > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 14:35:04 -0700 (PDT) > From: "Leo A. Martin" <leo@possi.org> > Subject: [pbs] Walleria gracilis > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Message-ID: <3e451094384c36c1eceee8bde645ab3e.squirrel@http://www.possi.org/> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > A week or so ago this was discussed in relation to its sporadic appearance > - only some years. > > I also got some of this seed the time Rachel offered it. In 2004 I planted > the seed, dividing the 15 seeds into 3 pots. Three sprouted in one of the > pots and none in the other two. The following year nothing came up in any > pot. The next year one plant came up in the pot that had sprouted before. > Last year again just the one plant sprouted. This spring I discarded the > other two pots. > > A few weeks ago I decided to take out the Veltheimea seed pots and water > them. I store things alphabetically and I accidentally pulled out the > Walleria as well. Without realizing this I have been soaking it since. It > is in my kitchen windowsill since days here are still near 100 F / 38C > though nights are cooling to the 70s F / 23C. The Walleria has sprouted > and is much better looking than in previous years. I have not unpotted it > so I don't know how big is the tuber. I'm still hoping the other two might > be alive but I doubt it. Any idea if this is self-fertile? > > Leo Martin > Phoenix Arizona USA > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 17:52:56 -0400 > From: "Jim McKenney" <jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com> > Subject: Re: [pbs] Chinese cooking > To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> > Message-ID: <000901c927fd$e50fd900$2f01a8c0@Library> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" > > Jim Waddick mentioned celtuce. Celtuce is nothing new in the US: it was > commonly sold a half century ago. This lettuce used to be in every seed > catalog when I was a kid, so I was surprised to read that it was now not > easily found. I checked several current general seed catalogs on hand > here, > and sure enough, not one listed celtuce. When I Googled ?celtuce seed? > there > were several hits, mostly from UK sources although there was at least one > US > source. I?ve never eaten celtuce, but I love the stems of other lettuces. > I?ll bet it?s available through the seed saver groups. > > > > We have several Asian supermarkets right in this neighborhood, and there > is > a gigantic Asian supermarket which draws clientele from far and wide > between > here and Baltimore. I?ll try to get over there sometime soon to check for > one bulb garlic and lily bulbs. I?ll let everyone know what I find. > > > > Jim McKenney > > jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com > > Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871? North, 77.09829? West, USDA > zone > 7 > > My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com/ > > BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ > > > > Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS > > Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org/ > > > > Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 18:28:33 -0400 > From: "Dell Sherk" <dells@voicenet.com> > Subject: Re: [pbs] Chinese cooking and more > To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> > Message-ID: <20081006222848.2FA604C01E@lists.ibiblio.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Dear Jim and Tsuh Yang, > > I have grown water spinach, Ipomoea aquatica, in the vegetable garden, so > it > doesn't need a lot of water. I have always been confused by reports that > "morning glories" are poisonous. > > Houttuynia cordata --- this has been a menace in my herb garden where I > made > the mistake of planting it. It is very invasive, smells awful (not nearly > so > nice as cilantro which it is supposed to resemble) and cannot be weeded > out. > I resorted to painting each bit that sprouted, with an herbicide, but next > year will tell the tale. > > On the subject of edible alliums, Allium tricoccum - ramps or wild leeks - > are a seasonal folk food in parts of West Virginia. I have eaten them > boiled > and could hardly recommend them except to those folks who are fond of > great > chunks of raw garlic - not exactly the same taste, but the same kind of > intensity. But I hear that they are being served as a delicacy in fine > restaurants. Does anyone know if it is possible to cultivate these bulbs? > I > have a source and would like to try. > > Dell > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 18:06:53 -0700 > From: "Nhu Nguyen" <xerantheum@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [pbs] Chinese cooking and more > To: "Pacific Bulb Society" <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> > Message-ID: > <f41531280810061806s247a5f45p118388a1d0a7bdf5@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Hi Dell and all, > > *Ipomoea aquatica* is an important vegetable in Vietnam where I was born. > It > is eaten widely by the poor because the plants grow vigorously in > waterways. > In some poor villages, it makes up the bulk of vegetable/foodstuff > consumed. > There are some nutrients like important vitamins that one can extract by > eating these plants. They are both eaten raw and cooked. Raw *I. > aquatica*has a very crispy texture and distinctive flavor. However, > there is fear > that the milky latex contain toxins and the plants have been shown to > accumulate toxic by products of biological activities such as waste/sewage > treatment. Another fear is that eating the raw tissue will give you an > intestinal fluke parasite called Fasciolopsis. It is common where pigs are > raised. The flukes will encyst on aquatic vegetation, waiting for the next > animal that chomps on those leaves. In the US it seems to be an invasive > weed where it is warm and wet. > > *Houttuynia cordata* is also eaten in southern Vietnam, but only the > leaves > not rhizomes. The smell is very distinctive and to me it's quite different > from cilantro. It serves as an important herb condiment along with mint > and > Thai basil in Vietnamese cuisine. It has an interesting property of > partially preventing the blood from clothing. Herbalists take advantage of > this property and prescribe it for certain ailments. During war-time, > soldiers must be very careful to not eat these plants, which I'm told is > hard for some because it makes up an important part of the cuisine. I have > too made the mistake of planting these in the ground. The rhizomes go very > deep and you must dig very deep down and get every.single.piece in order > to > get rid of the plant. > > *Allium tricoccum* is cultivated in many parts of the country and is > celebrated with it's own festival. It is native to the eastern US and > probably need a cold winter dormancy. I would like to grow it here in the > mild climate of central CA but have not been brave enough to try. Has > anyone > tried growing it in wild climates? It is sold here in the spring and is > one > of those items that dissappear quickly from the grocery special produce > shelf. > > Thanks for these fascinating topics. > > Nhu > Berkeley, CA, USA > ----- > http://www.flickr.com/photos/xerantheum/ > > > On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 3:28 PM, Dell Sherk <dells@voicenet.com> wrote: > >> Dear Jim and Tsuh Yang, >> >> I have grown water spinach, Ipomoea aquatica, in the vegetable garden, so >> it >> doesn't need a lot of water. I have always been confused by reports that >> "morning glories" are poisonous. >> >> Houttuynia cordata --- this has been a menace in my herb garden where I >> made >> the mistake of planting it. It is very invasive, smells awful (not nearly >> so >> nice as cilantro which it is supposed to resemble) and cannot be weeded >> out. >> I resorted to painting each bit that sprouted, with an herbicide, but >> next >> year will tell the tale. >> >> On the subject of edible alliums, Allium tricoccum - ramps or wild >> leeks - >> are a seasonal folk food in parts of West Virginia. I have eaten them >> boiled >> and could hardly recommend them except to those folks who are fond of >> great >> chunks of raw garlic - not exactly the same taste, but the same kind of >> intensity. But I hear that they are being served as a delicacy in fine >> restaurants. Does anyone know if it is possible to cultivate these bulbs? >> I >> have a source and would like to try. >> >> > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 19:17:35 -0700 (PDT) > From: David Ehrlich <idavide@sbcglobal.net> > Subject: Re: [pbs] Chinese cooking > To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> > Message-ID: <797466.23556.qm@web81008.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > I do not know what bulb garlic is like, but for a few weeks only in the > springtime, in farmers markets here in the Bay Area, oriental farmers sell > a vegetable that I call spring garlic.? It is very similar in appearance > to scallions, but like mild garlic in flavor.? It's wonderful in omelets.? > I look forward to it every spring. > ? > Celtuce is sold in season in oriental markets, such as the 99 Ranch > Markets.? I am quite fond of it, but thick stems can be woody. > ? > Water spinach used to be sold in packages in ordinary supermarkets.? I > don?t know why they call it that ? it doesn?t look like or taste like > regular spinach. > ? > If you have an East Asian neighborhood or market that you can go to, you > might find these vegetables you are fond of, but they are seasonal. > > David Ehrlich > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 20:39:16 -0700 > From: "David Maxwell" <opbungalow@gmail.com> > Subject: [pbs] Chilean/Andean Rhodophiala Dormancy Cycles? > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Message-ID: > <150371710810062039s4145db0bu82c077ff7ba05977@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Hi All, > > I have a question for those Members who have grown...or at least attemped > growing...the Chilean/Andean species (R.splendens, R.rhodolirion, > R.andicola, R.phycelloides, R.advena, R.bagnoldii) of Rhodophiala from > seeds > before. > > Did any/all of these species go into dormancy in their first year of > growth? > > If so...about how many weeks after planting...and about how many weeks was > their dormancy? > > My experience with Hippeastrum is that the seedlings grow continuously > throughout their first winter (May/June planting)...even at temperatures > in > the low 50sF...and they wouldn't go into a dormancy cycle until their > second > or even third winter (October/November). > > I expected the same continuous growth from my Rhodophiala seedlings, > however, almost all species are dying back. > > Well, except for the R.splendens and R.bagnoldii, which have sent up a > sturdy new leaf...if you can even call them that. > > Since the watering & growing conditions have been the same for all > species, > I'm assuming that the other species are going into their dormancy > cycles...and hopefully not just being killed off by my either over or > under > watering them. > > But I don't really know. > > I'm continuing to sparingly water even the seedlings that I have died > (back)...with the hope that maybe they're not really > all-the-way-dead...just > taking a break. > > But again, I don't really know...and I can't bring myself (yet) to dig one > up to see. > > When they seem somewhat established, I switched from watering them > indirectly to watering them directly using a spray bottle. > > Hopefully that wasn't the Kiss of Death. > > With my Hippeastrum seedlings I always water indirectly by keeping all the > pots in plastic tubs and then pouring the water into the tubs and just let > it wick up through the growing medium, which is always 100% peat. > > It was interesting that the type of potting medium I used with all these > species of Rhodophiala seeds seemed to make absolutely no difference in > germination. > > I did test batches of seeds planted in 100% peat...in 100% super-fine (San > Francisco) sand...and in a gritty mix of sand, Perlite & aquatic plant > gravel with a little peat mixed in. > > The germination ratios & growth rates were pretty much the > same...regardless > of which potting medium they were in. > > Anyway, if anyone has had prior experience getting these species through > their first year of growth, I'd be interested to hear about it. > > Thanks, > > -d. > > P.S. Ken (Amarguy), your B.josephinae is a spectacular inspiration...as > are > your intergeneric Amaryllis crosses! > > Rock on...and cross on! > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 20:56:45 -0700 > From: Jana Ulmer <jsulmer@sonic.net> > Subject: Re: [pbs] Chinese cooking > To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> > Message-ID: <17479DB3-A4FE-4948-A9C4-95838D88201C@sonic.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes; > format=flowed > > I am long time lurker on this list, but this off-topic discussion has > compelled me to post. I have grown a "lettuce" that may similar to > the celtuce that is being discussed. Seed is available from Fedco > (http://www.fedcoseeds.com/seeds/SeedsItem.php? > id=2731&SeedName=lettuce), and here is what they say: > > 2731CO Cracoviensis Lettuce OG (47 days) My absolute favorite of all > the lettuces Seed Savers curator M. Schultz has shared with me, > unlike any other in size, shape or colors. Cracoviensis is where the > red meets the green, making a dazzling twisting rosette with heavy > purple accenting, especially towards the center. Plants are fast > growing and very large. Although relatively rapid bolters, their > tender buttery flavor doesn?t give way to bitterness even after they > bolt. May be worth a try for over-wintering in warmer areas. > Customers in New Jersey and Massachusetts have reported success. > Listed as a distinct type, Asparagus Lettuce, in The Vegetable Garden > by Vilmorin-Andrieux (1885). Highly prized in China where they peel > and eat the thick fleshy stems like asparagus. > > What I grew was indeed large and quick to bolt, had a thick fleshy > stem, and in no way tasted like asparagus. For us, it fell in the > "interesting" category, as opposed to the "really tasty" category, > but we never tried cooking it, maybe it would have been better that way. > > In the allium arena, one that we do grow that is both tasty and > unusual is the I'itoi onion, which on the the Slow Foods "Ark of > Taste" list. You can read about it here: > > http://slowfoodusa.org/index.php/programs/… > iitoi_onion/ > > I planted the small shallot-like bulbs individually and each quickly > made a small clump of onions which we used both as scallions and as > chives. When I say we used them as scallions, I mean that they were > roughly the size and shape of a green onion, without any "bulb" > formed at the bottom. The clumps went dormant in the summer, so I dug > them up, (again looking like small shallots) but before I got to cook > any in bulb form, they started growing again. So now they are all > planted and have formed clumps. When they go dormant again, which I > expect will be in early summer, I'd be happy to send some to the BX > if people here would like to try it. > > Jana Ulmer > Sebastopol, CA > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 00:09:13 -0500 > From: James Waddick <jwaddick@kc.rr.com> > Subject: Re: [pbs] Chinese Edible Plants > To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> > Message-ID: <p0624087ec5109ab9f808@[192.168.1.100]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" > > Dear David and Jana, > Stem lettuce is not like a leaf lettuce at all and does not > form a head. Instead the central stem elongates sort of like an > inverted carrot - larger at the base and small as it goes up. To > prepare, you remove the leaves (don't know if they are edible like > lettuce leaves. Then peel the rough and sometime woody outer layer > until you reach the pale green smooth inner core. This can be sliced > in thin diagonal slices and stir fried, or chunks and added to soup. > Lots of other ways too. > There's a pic at http://www.kitazawaseed.com/seed_068-162.html > It does not taste like asparagus to me, nor celery. Very mild > and crunchy. > >> >>Celtuce is sold in season in oriental markets, such as the 99 Ranch >>Markets. I am quite fond of it, but thick stems can be >>woody. > > Lucky you. When is the season where you are? > >> >>Water spinach used to be sold in packages in ordinary supermarkets. >>I don't know why they call it that > > It is usually grown in water as an aquatic plant. > > The I'itoi onion looks sort of like a sprouted garlic bulb > and very interesting. Never heard of this one before, but must have > been an important native food, just to survive to this day. > > A host of edible bulbs and tubers off the beaten track. > > If anyone can find a source of one-bulb garlic, I'd love to > know. Anyone know an adventurous grower in Gilroy , the garlic > capital? > > Thanks all. Jim W. > -- > Dr. James W. Waddick > 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. > Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 > USA > Ph. 816-746-1949 > Zone 5 Record low -23F > Summer 100F + > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 11 > Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 11:43:08 EDT > From: Billthebulbbaron@aol.com > Subject: Re: [pbs] Chilean/Andean Rhodophiala Dormancy Cycles? > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Message-ID: <cbb.26016505.361cdd8c@aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > > In a message dated 10/6/08 8:40:25 PM, opbungalow@gmail.com writes: > > >> Anyway, if anyone has had prior experience getting these species through >> their first year of growth, I'd be interested to hear about it. >> > > yes, the dormancy is normal for these in my experience. glad you had > success eith R splendens, this has germinated poorly with me > > > > (PLEASE note new address & phone/fax numbers below Thanks!) > ALSO, I now sell Oxblood Lilies (Texas Red--also--the PINK), as well as > Freesia alba & the Texas form of Gladiolus byzantinus...see Availability > List > > Best wishes, > > Bill the Bulb Baron > http://www.billthebulbbaron.com/ > William R.P. Welch > > Please make all checks payable to William R.P. Welch, and use my NEW > address: > 1031-B Cayuga Street, Santa Cruz, CA 95062, USA > > New phone numbers as well: > Phone (831) 236-8397 > fax ONLY (831) 426-4915--HOWEVER I much prefer orders etc placed WITHIN an > email (NOT as an attachment) COMPARED to fax as I don't know yet how to > transfer > fax text over on to my computer where I need it--thanks! > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 12 > Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 09:35:56 -0700 (PDT) > From: David Ehrlich <idavide@sbcglobal.net> > Subject: Re: [pbs] Chinese Edible Plants > To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> > Message-ID: <8077.44318.qm@web81002.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Dear James, > > The leaves on celtuce are edible; there are forms with large leaves making > the stem/plant look like a head of romaine.? I've seen these on the > internet, but never at any market.? When I buy celtuce at the Asian > markets, all the stem leaves, such as they may have been, have been > removed, but the few leaves at the top of the stalk are left in place -- > they are rather coarse, but they do taste like a kind of lettuce. > > I live on the S.F. Peninsula, but there are Asian markets all up and down > coastal California.? Celtuce is available late spring - summer > > On the internet I found?two California and one Canadian distributors of > seed -- some even with several varieties > > While the varietal name is asparagina (Lactuca sativa asparagina), and it > is called both asparagus lettuce and celery lettuce, it does not taste > like either, nor does it make your urine smell. > > Water Spinach:? I understand the water part; what I don't understand is > the spinach part.? It tastes as much like spinach as the above like > asparagus.? It doesn't look like spinach either. > > David Ehrlich > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > End of pbs Digest, Vol 69, Issue 6 > **********************************