It seems to me that what Jim Waddick is telling us makes a good case for the point of view that the nomenclatural type for Lycoris radiata (L. radiata subsp. radiata) is itself likely of hybrid origin. If the purported diploid form is always smaller and less cold hardy, and if as Jim says it imparts its red color readily to hybrids, then those characteristics make hybrid origin of the common big form likely. The seeming fact that this big triploid form does not correspond exactly to any diploid population strongly suggests a hybrid origin for the big triploid form (or forms). If this proves to be the case, that means that the two commonest Lycoris in cultivation (L. radiata subsp. radiata and L. squamigera) are triploids of hybrid origin (and thus are not species in the modern sense). It also means that the diploid “Lycoris radiata” will need a new name. I hope I’m around to read the definitive studies. Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871º North, 77.09829º West, USDA zone 7, where the first Achimenes of the year are about to bloom. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com/ BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org/ Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org/