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Today's Topics:

1. Re: Eulophias (bonaventure@optonline.net)
2. Climate zones (Gary)
3. Re: Climate zones (John Grimshaw)
4. Re: Climate Zones/'Cooling' at night (Susan Hayek)
5. Re: Climate zones (John Bryan)
6. Re: Climate zones (Tony Avent)
7. Re: Climate Zones (ConroeJoe@aol.com)
8. Re: Climate Zones/'Cooling' at night (Lee Poulsen)
9. Re: Climate zones (Lee Poulsen)
10. Re: Climate zones (Tony Avent)
11. Re: Climate zones (Rodger Whitlock)
12. Re: Eulophias (Robert Hamilton)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 13:10:44 -0400
From: bonaventure@optonline.net
Subject: Re: [pbs] Eulophias
To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID: <e054a92b8700.43622354@optonline.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Barbara wrote:
I'm curious, Bonaventure, about the requirements of this Eulophia. New
Jersey is much more humid than New Mexico. Does it require humidity to
thrive?
Thanks,
- Barbara Weintraub
Santa Fe, NM
USDA cold zone 5b/6a

--
I just brought my Eulophia keithii indoors. Now I put them under bright
light and stop all watering until new growth resumes in March or April.
The long thin (unorchid-like) grasslike leaves will soon wither and fall
off leaving attractive dark green flattened conical pseudobulbs 2-3 inches
tall, making the whole pot much more compact. When the growth resumes I
divide into 2-3 pseudobulb sections and repot into fresh potting soil
amended with perlite. Blooming soon follows, the inflorescence somewhat
resembling that of a smaller Cymbidium sinense or ensifolium. These are
enjoyed indoors. Then the plants are acclimated to full sunlight outdoors
in May and fertilized heavily untill fall.
Easy as pie - first neglect with no water, then throw water and fertilizer
on every day. I have extras available and am looking for other species.
Bonaventure Magrys
Cliffwood Beach, NJ USA

I dunno, but I would suggest acclimating it slowly to the higher light
levels in NM when put outside and beginning growth and keeping it amply
moist. I would watch for spider mites on the thin foliage. It grows like a
weed if you follow the key to indulge it with water and food while in
growth to ripen the pseudobulbs, and follow with sharp sharp deprivation
for 5-6 months. I have photos but putting them on the wiki is an exercise
in futility and frustration.
Bonaventure@optonline.net
Anyone want divisions contact me privately and I can divide them soon when
all the leaves are shed and bareroot send them for a small fee covering
postage & labor.

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 07:59:26 -1000
From: "Gary" <doji@hawaii.rr.com>
Subject: [pbs] Climate zones
To: <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <001e01c5dbe9$568de590$370ffea9@aeiyf6hlf7azgl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Hi John,

Another factor that doesn't fit the zones neatly into zip codes is
altitude. In my case I am 2.5 miles/4km straight line horizontally from
the official weather station, and 750'/230m higher in altitude. My
rainfall is 50% more than the official measure, and I average almost 10F
cooler. Here in the tropics, altitude has a much greater effect on
temperature among other things than on the U.S. mainland. And we are both
in the same zip code.

Gary in Hilo, HI, where it rains every day, and in the winter it rains all
day
Zone 13/14 if there were such zones, 200"/500cm rain evenly spread
throughout the year

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 19:29:11 +0100
From: "John Grimshaw" <johngrimshaw@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [pbs] Climate zones
To: "Pacific Bulb Society" <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <006401c5dbed$de929e50$d9ab403e@home5fce999940>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original

John Bryan asked about soil-warming cables in the open ground, which
always
sounds like wonderful luxury. I have come across it only once, in the
garden
at Waltham Place, a mile or so from where I write in Maidenhead west of
London. The owners are the Oppenheimers, of De Beers fame, so they can
afford it: just a shame they only grow hardy plants in those beds! (Canna
&
Tradescantia pallida, both of which in recent years at least can be
regarded
as hardy hereabouts.)

John Grimshaw

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 12:14:26 -0700
From: Susan Hayek <susanann@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [pbs] Climate Zones/'Cooling' at night
To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <a06210202bf88258b0e92@[69.106.40.233]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"

**I'm confused on the tomato thing. My parents lived in the
California Central Valley for years (from 1952 on), Bakersfied, Taft,
Fresno and Kerman (south portions of the Central Valley). Days can
be well over 100F and nights may cool to 95-97F at 2 am. When I went
over to help them I did the gardening after midnight.

They always had the best tomatoes, the huge ones (and the best roses).
So when we talk of nights 'cooling' how do we define 'cool'? Do we
mean certain amount of degrees less than afternoon temps? Or do we
mean a set temperature?

s.
--
susan hayek, North Coast of CA, USA, zone 9b, Sunset zone 17.
15 miles south of Eureka, CA, with a peek of the ocean.

------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 12:19:07 -0700
From: John Bryan <johnbryan@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [pbs] Climate zones
To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <436279AB.A10330FF@worldnet.att.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2

Dear John;

Thanks for your e-mail. With solar panels I think such could be used for
soil cables and save on electricity. Thus the installation would cost a
little, but the sunlight is free! I am sure such will come to pass, if
not already here, and be used to raise vegetables and fruit. Such is
much used in California for various signs, and one sees them along the
freeways all the time. There are also certain tax advantages in using
sun panels as efforts re made to save fuels. Cheers, John E. Bryan

John Grimshaw wrote:

------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 15:33:08 -0400
From: Tony Avent <tony@plantdelights.com>
Subject: Re: [pbs] Climate zones
To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20051028153308.00bd8280@66.39.59.108>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

John:

Work on the new USDA map began on August 18, 2004. In 2003, a draft
version was released by the American Horticulture Society which caused
quite an uproar in the horticultural community. This revision would have
done away with the "a" and "b" zone designations and would have been based
on a fifteen year sample (1986-2001) of climatic data. By using a 15-year
warm period sample, the draft map would have moved Chicago into zone 6 and
made other such disastrous errors.

Thanks to the support of Dr. Judy St. John of USDA-ARS, the map revision
was put on hold until input from the stakeholders (government term for
folks most affected by government decisions) could be gathered. The August
18 meeting included representatives from USDA- ARS, the American
Horticulture Society, the American Association of Botanic Gardens and
Arboreta, University Researchers, and representatives of the nursery
industry.

The project will consist of two phases. In Phase I, the map will be
reconstructed using the most recent 30 years of average annual extreme
minimum temperatures. The map will also retain the "a and b" designations.
For the first time, the map will include a better breakdown of
coastal/lake
effects, urban heat islands, wind patterns, and elevation differences.
Due
to advances in interpolation algorithms, the map will pick up on small
differences that were previously missed. The map will be made available
on-line where it can be searched both by city and zip code. The on-line
map
will be clickable for more detailed climatic data to satisfy what the
research scientists called, "those pointy-head weather nerd types."

Phase II of the project will involve overlay maps for other factors such
as
duration of cold, summer heat factors, and possibly air flow patterns.
It's
not often that I get excited about a government project, but this will be
a
huge improvement for our industry. Thanks both to the USDA-ARS for making
their resources available and for all of the committee members for their
time and input into the process.
Tony Avent
Plant Delights Nursery @
Juniper Level Botanic Garden
9241 Sauls Road
Raleigh, NC 27603 USA
Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F
Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F
USDA Hardiness Zone 7b
email tony@plantdelights.com
website http://www.plantdel.com/
phone 919 772-4794
fax 919 772-4752
"I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least
three times" - Avent

------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 17:11:32 EDT
From: ConroeJoe@aol.com
Subject: Re: [pbs] Climate Zones
To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID: <1c1.3431a4c5.3093ee04@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Hey Gang,

I sure enjoyed reading Lee's explanation of the USDA climate zones.

Thanks Lee!

Cordially,

Conroe Joe

------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 14:48:40 -0700
From: Lee Poulsen <wpoulsen@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: [pbs] Climate Zones/'Cooling' at night
To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <a45b45b4a3b46ad4fd04e474421fc032@pacbell.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

On Oct 28, 2005, at 12:14 PM, Susan Hayek wrote:

First off, I believe the night time low temperature point above which
tomato fruits start having difficulty forming is around 70 or 71?F. If
it doesn't regularly drop below that temperature for long periods of
time, then no fruit form and 30 days later or however long it takes to
ripen, there won't be any fruit to ripen. Here is a PDF file from
Alabama that describes this facet of tomato growing and the new 'heat
set' tomato varieties that have been developed.
<http://aces.edu/department/com_veg/…>

Here are the monthly average maximum and minimum temperatures for the
warmest months of the year for Bakersfield and Fresno, and for the
triangle of Dallas, San Antonio, and Houston (as well as Austin) in
Texas, which covers a much larger area than the south Central Valley of
California. Remember than each number is the average of approx. 30 low
or high temperatures (for each day in a given month) times 30 years
worth of data. I.e., each value is the average of about 900 individual
high or low temperatures measured during that month of the year. So of
course sometimes the low will be higher than this and sometimes the low
will be lower than this value. So it gives you an idea of about what
you can expect the low temperature will be on any given day of a given
month in that locality.

Looking at the California lows (especially in July and August) and
comparing them with the Texas lows (for June, July, and August), even
though I'm sure there are days in the summer in Bakersfield or Fresno
where the low temperature didn't drop as low as the average, enough did
that the average, even in Bakersfield, even in July, is still below the
70-71?F critical point. Another thing to keep in mind is that the
summertime temperatures in Texas are remarkably consistent day after
day year after year. They virtually never get any kind of cool front
all summer long. Morning after morning for weeks on end, the
temperature always drops to 72, 73, 74 or 75?F and no lower--not from
some time in June until sometime in September does it get any lower.

May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct

Bakersfield, California
84.6 92.3 98.4 96.4 90.0 80.6
57.2 63.9 69.4 68.4 63.5 54.7

Fresno, California
84.2 92.7 98.6 96.6 90.0 79.7
53.6 60.3 64.9 63.7 58.6 50.5

===============================================

May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct

Austin, Texas
84.6 91.0 95.0 95.4 90.5 82.0
66.4 71.4 73.8 73.8 69.8 59.9

Dallas, Texas
82.8 91.8 96.4 96.1 87.8 78.4
62.6 70.0 73.9 73.6 66.7 55.8

Houston, Texas
84.7 89.8 92.3 92.3 88.0 81.3
66.9 72.5 74.5 74.5 71.1 61.2

San Antonio, Texas
85.3 91.8 95.0 95.2 89.2 81.7
65.7 72.5 74.8 74.5 69.1 58.6

--Lee Poulsen
Pasadena area, California, USDA Zone 10a

------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 14:48:45 -0700
From: Lee Poulsen <wpoulsen@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: [pbs] Climate zones
To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <941d96d1aa64a0c972e0eed3ffe3c0e8@pacbell.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed

Wow, Tony. This is fantastic to hear about. I had my own little private
"uproar" when I saw that initial AHS draft version.

Thanks for representing all of us "silent majority" stakeholders that
never get invited to any of these government meetings that affect us.
(I'm thinking of the "importing small lots of seeds" rule-making
meetings...)

I can't wait till it comes out or online. Any idea of when the Phase I
map will appear?

It would be really nice if the EU, Australia, New Zealand, South
Africa, Chile, Argentina, and China, for starters would submit their
temperature data to this project as well. I've seen a zone map of China
and of Australia that some people put together and a low resolution map
of Europe that someone made. But it would be nice to have full-blown
versions of these areas as well as of North America. And it would be
very informative to see true Zone maps of southern South America, South
Africa, and New Zealand as well.

--Lee Poulsen
Pasadena area, California, USDA Zone 10a

On Oct 28, 2005, at 12:33 PM, Tony Avent wrote:

------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 18:54:24 -0400
From: Tony Avent <tony@plantdelights.com>
Subject: Re: [pbs] Climate zones
To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20051028185424.015286a0@66.39.59.108>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Lee and Roy:

Dr. Mark Widrlechner, who compiled the China hardiness map, is the
chairman of the committee. For years, I have kept files of everyones
posts
about an ideal hardiness map. These ideas have all been presented to the
committee. There is a lot of discussion about web customization
possibilities. It is hoped that the first map will be finished by years
end, but projects such as this move slowly. The next phase with all of
the
overlays will be a much more long term project, but one that everyone
agrees is quite important. The USDA-ARS staff hase been wonderful in
allowing their resouces to go to this project. Perhaps once the map is
complete, the UN might find this a useful project to complete worldwide
maps. I'll let everyone know when the maps are completed.

At 02:48 PM 10/28/2005 -0700, you wrote:

Tony Avent
Plant Delights Nursery @
Juniper Level Botanic Garden
9241 Sauls Road
Raleigh, NC 27603 USA
Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F
Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F
USDA Hardiness Zone 7b
email tony@plantdelights.com
website http://www.plantdel.com/
phone 919 772-4794
fax 919 772-4752
"I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least
three times" - Avent

------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 15:54:14 -0700
From: "Rodger Whitlock" <totototo@telus.net>
Subject: Re: [pbs] Climate zones
To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID:
<20051028225550.EHHV20262.priv-edmwes25.telusplanet.net@ray>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

On 28 Oct 05 at 8:45, John Bryan wrote:

Go down my driveway to the street, turn right, and within a
mile you're at the saltchuck. A ten-minute bicycle ride -- but
only going there, there's a steep downhill that you'd have to
walk back up!

That's yet another factor to take into account: altitude. The
Sooke hills west of Victoria get snow regularly in winter down
to, say, the 1000' level (iow on their crests); at the same
time, here in Victoria proper it's only raining. I think we
escape regular snowfalls by the skin of our teeth.

Yet another (micro)climatic factor: topography. Those very same
hills get up to around 2000' altitude or so and catch the
winter precipitation; we are in a rain shadow, one reason we're
so dry.

And yet another: katabatics. How well does your property shed
cold air? I keep telling one hort buddy here who lives on a
west-facing hillside that he really ought to cut come drainage
passages in the privet hedge at the bottom of his garden to let
the cold air out. No, he doesn't, and he gets pooling of cold
air and localized freezing in consequence. My former swamp is a
low spot and the low parts of it are significantly frostier
than the ever-so-slightly higher parts even though we're
talking about less than half an acre, less than 300' distances.

And then there are the imponderables. In 1988 I moved about two
miles from a banana belt to a slightly higher, colder, wetter
situation. I can't even begin to guess just what causes this
difference, but I know when I drive home, the street is often
dry until I'm about a quarter- or half-mile from home and then
it's suddenly wet, the line of demarcation being amazingly
sharp.

And while I'm at it, let's not forget drainage. My backyard has
standing water after heavy winter rains, but twenty feet away,
right by the house, the perimeter drains keep the soil
dry allowing Teucrium fruticans, Convolvulus cneorum, Punica
granatum flore-pleno, Iris unguicularis, and Cytisus
battandieri to all thrive. Iris cretensis thrives (more or
less) raised just a foot above the squelch.

For those of us on the left coast, the Sunset climatic zones
are far preferable to USDA hardiness zones, taking into account
as they do a great many more factors than just winter low
temperatures.

The heat island effect, very well known.

Hee-hee. You will be relieved to hear that there is also a
Thames in Ontario, though it's a much smaller stream, so your
specificity is not entirely out of place.

And I wouldn't be surprised if there are Thameses in NZ, Oz,
and SA.

[Eeeek: he abbreviated! Sinner!]

In summary: What this business of climate adds up to is a very
complex multi-factorial effect. That's why Sunset's system,
which is based on the observed performance of benchmark
plants, is so superior, even if it means our hypothetical
friend Joe Sixpack has to struggle to read a map and actually
pay some attention to his surroundings. Benchmarking doesn't
just mean hardiness, btw. It includes such factors as "What
bears fruit in this location? Apples? Lemons? Oranges?
Citrons?" (That last being the most tender citrus).

Back to blubs: a local hardware store surprised me with
packages of Iris 'Katherine Hodgkin', Ipheion 'Rolf Fiedler',
and a white Ipheion. Amazing.

--
Rodger Whitlock
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate

on beautiful Vancouver Island

------------------------------

Message: 12
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 10:08:49 +1100
From: Robert Hamilton <roberth6@mac.com>
Subject: Re: [pbs] Eulophias
To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <75093ac958f9d79fc820fb5b87b2c755@mac.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed

Hi Bonaventure and Jim,

What medium do you use for growing Eulophia ?

Cheers,

Rob in Tasmania

------------------------------

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