Hi all, In January 2003 the PBS list discussed Carol's plant when Dash asked: "May I ask if the Hymenocallis xFestalis is called Ismene 'Festalis'? It appears to have 2 different names on two different forum lists. Or are they 2 different plants?" Jim Shields said: "the Andean Hymenocallis are often put (back) into the Ismene. It depends on what you feel is most appropriate. I think I go with the separate genus for them now." Kevin Preuss said: "Both are proper terms. Ismene 'Festalis' would be the original released cv and years later the cross was repeated when Ismene was lumped in w/ Hymenocallis and 'Festalis' was a hybrid, so Hym. xFestalis would be an acceptable way to show the cross if you recognize Ismene under Hymenocallis. Hamish Sloan said: "They are the same. Both Ismene and Elisena were classified once upon a time as separate from Hymenocallis, largely on the basis of differences in flower form. But "the botanists decided" that these differences did not constitute sufficient difference to warrant putting them into a separate genus. Probably best treated as subgenera of hymenocallis if you are a "splitter" rather than a "lumper". The corona in Hymenocallis and Ismene is erect, in Elisena it is sharply bent. The free parts of the filaments are erect or hang outwards in Hymenocallis and Elisena, in Ismene they are incurved. Not much different! In this respect, I'm a lumper." When discussing the Hymenocallis topic of the week, Kevin said, "For practical purposes sometimes when referring to hybrids, the genera Elisena, Ismene, and Leptochiton are recognized under the genus Hymenocallis in a broad sense." Even this go around both names were cited. The previous discussion led me to put Sheila Burrow's picture of this plant on both the Ismene and the Hymenocallis page with a note that some people feel Ismene should be a distinct genus and some do not. The Ismene page with Sheila's picture has not been removed. It is still there. And Sheila's picture is still on the Hymenocallis wiki page too. If Carol can't access them she could try clearing her cache by holding down the Shift or Option key depending on whether she has a Mac or a PC and hitting reload. http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/… http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/… http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/files/… One of these days I may find time to add the information about Ismene to the wiki that has been provided by this group, but it will always be impossible to get everyone to agree about the names. The best I can do is to reference both when I have time to add this information. As pictures are added to the wiki it is very helpful if the person adding those pictures can provide text not only about their experiences growing the plant, but other helpful information too (like plants being known under two names.) Mary Sue
