The main problem in these parts is that so few gardeners or nurserymen know what the envelope is. Colchicums and fall-blooming crocuses and Juno irises and many other worthy "hardy" bulbs are practically nonexistent in gardens and in the trade, never mind agapanthi and crinums and rhodohypoxis and zantedeschias and the numerous other "exotic" bulbs that should be grown or at least tried. Additionally, the "it won't grow here" mentality is all too often found among members of the horticultural profession. I've had nurserymen/horticulturists tell me that Hamamelis x intermedia is not hardy in this area (as well as Nandina domestica, Erica carnea, etc. etc.)! Cedrus libani, Albizia julibrissin 'E.H. Wilson', Sequoiadendron giganteum -- the list of edge-of-the-envelope plants that should be grown here but are virtually absent from nurseries and gardens goes on and on. Russell Berrien Springs, Michigan, USA, zone 6 At 08:14 AM 6/26/2004 -0500, James Waddick wrote: >>We need more people like Jim Waddick and Jim Shields in the colder zones to >>take our lists and keep pushing those envelopes. > >Dear Tony; > I agree fully. Russell Stafford Odyssey Bulbs 8984 Meadow Lane, Berrien Springs, Michigan 49103 269-471-4642 http://www.odysseybulbs.com/