Hi all I've been following the thread on Scoliopus with interest, since I was sent about a hundred seeds last spring through the kindness of a fellow plant enthusiast in San Francisco. I don't know whether to expect to see them this year or, like Trillium, next spring. But I sure hope to be able to grow them on when they do show. I've only seen them growing in the wild once, and that was in the Mount Tamalpais (CA) watershed as I was driving through late on January. They were in full bloom, but I only spotted them because of their location. They were growing along the course of a small, possibly vernal, creek in a shallow, gently sloped valley. Most of them were coming up through a dense mat of moss, but the ones I noticed were growing from the shoulder of the road where it crossed the stream. The shoulder appeared to have been freshly graded the previous fall. The plants were growing in pretty much straight fine sand. Mary Sue recently wrote, "... in the Mendocino County flora one of the authors had written that this plant had done well in her sandy San Francisco garden...". What this points out may be the key to growing many of the Northwestern spring/summer ephemeral species, such as Trillium, Erythronium, Clintonia, Lilium and Scoliopus. In our coniferous and mixed forests, much of our soil is often two layered, with a dense organic layer on top of a sand/gravel substrate. I've spent a bunch of time doing plant rescues, and have found that the bulbs/tubers/rhizomes of the various plants live under the organic layer, a bit into the substrate. This make sense, as the contractile roots of many species can pull the young plants down through organic matter, but have a tougher go of it through sand/gravel, especially as the size of the plant increases with age. Because of the ample fall/winter/spring rain, nutrients have no problem migrating down to the roots, as decomposition makes them available. Growth of mature bulbs/rhizomes is largely horizontal. In our dry summers, the soil often dries completely; the organic layer shrinks and separates from the substrate, supported by the courser, undecayed twigs and branches. This creates an air space between the layers (I've seen up to an inch) throughout the forest. The early fall rains do little to rehydrate the organic layer, or the soil beneath; it takes the hard, constant rains of late fall and winter to accomplish this. Where this is all leading is to the idea of soil layering in gardens and containers, keeping the decaying organic material away from the dormant plants. I've been experimenting with native plants in containers, using a poor soil with good drainage in most of the pot, and a top dressing of mostly composted organic material. In the few years I've been trying this, Trilliums, Erythroniums, Lilies and others have responded well. I'm sorry if this is a bit(?) long winded, but I've read both on this forum and Trillium_L how people have had trouble with western species. The desire of finding the "right" soil mix is often mentioned, but may, in my opinion, be a futile search, or a compromise at best. The lack of layers could also explain why some people on this forum mentioned they have trouble growing some species, even if they live within the species native habitat. Thanks for letting me air these ideas. I'd welcome any comments. Peace and good gardening Dave Brastow - Tumwater, WA (zone 7A)