In a message dated 23-Sep-03 10:36:03 AM Pacific Daylight Time, janemcgary@EARTHLINK.NET writes: Jane, Jim ~ > I have not noticed named cultivars self-sowing, but since they're used in > breeding, at least some of them have to be fertile. The modern daffodil is a tetraploid. The first three divisions are quite fertile with each other and are the source of much of the breeding taking place today. Open pollinated seed occurs commonly in these hybrids. Oddly, as many have observed, there never seem to be seedlings arising from the seed scattered from those capsules. I suspect the reason for this is consumption of the seed by birds, as the seed (when fresh) is big, black and shiny and rests on the surface of the soil -- easy pickings for sharp eyed seed eaters. In my current lease here in OR, there are small groups of wild turkeys that move through and I suspect that it is the rare seed that escapes these creatures! Daffodil hybrids involving one of the species and a 4n parent, however, tend to be triploid and, thus, infertile, or only marginally so. Many of the commoner species (and species diploid hybrids) will also set quantities of OP seed (but not the scarcer and far more desirable ones!!). The interesting thing about many of these is that the very small capsules are chock-a-block full of seed -- I've counted over a hundred seed from one small bulbocodium capsule! There are so many seed that they tend to be angular so they can all fit in, rather than the spherical form otherwise normal. > Narcissus triandrus 'Albus' and N. pseudonarcissus "obvallaris" self-sow > here regularly in the garden, and I collect a great deal of viable seed from > the species Narcissus I grow in the bulb frames. > I've found N. triandrus triandrus (albus) to readily set seed when manually pollinated. With respect to OP seed, however, Jane has far better luck in her controlled environment than I do with these things grown outdoors where they have to take what 'ol Ma Nature throws their way. Honestly, I've never really noticed obvallaris, although every year I see great quantities of OP seed capsules on N. minor and the various hybrids involving this one, e.g., 'Little Gem.' They have to be unfailingly removed to keep the stocks free of unwanted seedlings. I used to collect and sow this seed but never got anything to justify the time involved. Some of the jonquil and bulbocodium hybrids might even be termed "weeds" here in Oregon (I suspect the daffodil community will strike me dead for such blasphemy) as they will always OP with promiscuous abandon. Same result for the seed, however. Best, Dave Karnstedt Cascade Daffodils Silverton, Oregon, USA Maritime, Mediterranean climate, USDA Z7-8 email: davekarn@AOL.com