Hello Ken: I stand corrected on L. pardalinum ssp. giganteum - I was going on what the USDA said. They would not let me sell it without a CITES certificate, and confiscated an overseas order, insisting it was L. pitkinense. The plants I had were very large and very vigorous, which doesn't sound like the description you and Mary Sue give of the true L. pitkinense. Diana ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kenneth Hixson" <khixson@nu-world.com> To: <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 9:30 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] L. pitkinense > Dear Diana- > >The growth is described as "rhizomatous", but my plants would form densely > >clustered masses around the main plant stem, all covered in scales. They > >could be separated by cutting into chunks. They could not be pulled apart, > >and I would not have described this as "rhizomatous" > L. pardalinum usually forms rhizomes which form multiple branches, > and the branches in turn rebranch-not just in one layer, but up and down as > well as on a level. In a very few years there is a huge mass of bulbs and > stems, none of which get enough nutrients, thus non flowering. Dividing > L. pardalinum often sets it back and it "sulks" for a couple years. I've > often thought that is because the division is done too late, in the fall like > most other lilies. L pardalinum, being adapted to west coast growing > conditions, > makes its' new roots much sooner than lilies from other areas, and digging it > too late would result in "losing" this years' roots. I have often wished I > could compare digging and dividing as soon as the leaves brown with digging > in late August. Early September is probably too late-new roots may have > already > started growing. > > My plants did not show any sign of virus the > >first two or three years, so they could have acquired it in my care or could > >have been virused to start out with. The plants CNPS here (Humboldt County) > >are selling now are virused. > I have less problem with west coast lilies getting virus than most other > lilies-but then I may not have the aphids and leafhoppers you have. > > There is no such thing as L. pardalinum ssp. > >giganteum (although CNPS still calls it that), and the USDA and Fish & Game > >both say it is L. pitkinense. My plants were destroyed. > Well, actually, yes there is. At one time, L. pardalinum ssp. giganteum > was called L. harrisianum, but the trend in recent years has been to submerge > most west coast lilies into L. pardalinum, one enormously variable species. > First L. harrisianum became L. pardalinum ssp. giganteum, then just L. > pardalinum. > In this same vein, L. pitkinense may be L. pardalinum-and actually, that > might be justified, though it was as distinct as L. harrisianum. If they are > both L. pardalinum, they are the same species, but not the same thing. It is > about like saying a pink hyacinth and a blue hyacinth are both hyacinths, > so they are the same thing. > I no longer have L. pitkinense, but what I grew under that name had bulbs > which were much less vigorous and spreading. They did have rhizomes, and they > did branch, but not as much as L. pardalinum giganteum. The plants also were > smaller in all parts than the L. pardalinum I had, which again was smaller > than L. pardalinum ssp. giganteum. L pitkinense was originally found in the > Pitkin Marsh, and for a long time that was the only location, and there were > only about fifty plants when the species was named. A few years later it was > reported that blackberries were invading the marsh, and after an estensive > search only seven plants were found. I believe Mary Sue mentioned a second > location, which I haven't otherwise heard about. Given that the name > is being used for two very different plants, it shouldn't be any surprise > that > there is a lot of confusion about what L. pitkinense really is. One of the > pictures in my email yesterday was from a man in England, wanting to know if > what he had was L. pitkinense. > Ken > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php