I just thought I would put in an update on this old subject (but a passion of mine in case you can't tell). I have made contact with a woman in Australia that has been working on some hybrids. Her goal was for greenhouse /florist quality plants. Her hybrids are 2-3' tall and flower for 4-5 months. I have asked for permission to post some of her photos to the wiki. I'll see what she says. They are all pretty incredible. When I told here that I wanted to get plants to use for landscape use, she was amused. For her, the garden is where her discards go. But she did say they don't flower as well in a garden situation as in a pot. Maybe soil fertilitiy issues? Anyway, we have been chatting about other species to use to get some fresh material into her breeding program. I'm encouraging her to use some of the shrubbier plants such as Paliavana and Vanhouttea. Vanhoutteas are cooler montain plants and may impart some hardiness for those furthur up the coast than I. Paliavana are larger growing shrubs (some to 6'+) and really large flowers (most species are green or brown though). Some of these species are also a little more drought tolerant. All good genes to work with. She has also used leucotricha and iarae as parents which is great. Lecuo. adds some nice foliage to all it's hybrids. I'll keep you all updated about the photos. She will be sending me some seeds of her hybrids to grow on. Maybe I can convince her to send enough of them to offer some for others to try. ===== John Ingram in L.A., CA. Soon to become http://www.floralarchitecture.com/ check it out soon 310.709.1613 jjingram@adelphia.net Floralartistry2000@yahoo.com http://www.geocities.com/floralartistry2000/