Dear Boyce, Thanks you for the reply. Let me explain the purposes and classes of 'permanent' markers that I have. There are five classes needed to cover the range of stuff that I grow. First, for a limited number of my specimens of trees and large shrubs I use a high quality label such as you describe (mostly 2" x3"), and am in need of more in several sizes. Your price seems reasonable. There is no doubt in my mind that for those puposes they will remain clear for as long as I shall ever need them. I should appreciate getting the names of people who make them. Second, for smaller shrubs, climbers, perennials such as bromeliads and bulbs planted out I would like to use a cheaper but still, long-lasting label as I described in my question. These would then be attached to pendant or epiphytic plants such as bromeliads and orchids or attached to a short post next to or within terrestrial bromeliads, ferns or large orchids. As of now, I use cut roofing steel that I cut into 1" x 4" pieces that I have drilled to allow me to hang them with stainless steel or vinyl clad cable. I use the 7B-9B grahite for this but I don't consider it a totally satisfactory solution. The steel will outlive me but the markings may or may not. Third, for potted plants or plants that are being propagated and/or being grown on, I use vinyl labels and a 7b to 9B graphite pencil. Fourth, for succulent plants (including cacti) in the ground and maybe for bulbs that are located nearby I like to use a tablet on the ground as each of the other types of label are not attractive when placed next to non-leafy plants. I have used stone that I have engraved with Dremel. That looks great but it is an enrmous job to make all those labels. But, let's leave that class of label aside as I am considering another approach for them and it's probably going too far afield from the topics of this site. Fifth, for water plants, waterlilies and the like. I generally use the vinyl /pencil label and place it among the roots underwater and hope it survives. It often does but I cannot say it is a great fix. The question yesterday was referencing ONLY the second class, which most people may have missed in reading the question. Anyhow, let's move on! I would appreciate hearing from you about sources for class 1 labels. A private reply is fine if you prefer that. Many thanks Andrew San Diego