James Waddick wrote: And it would be nice to see > the entire pant habit. But Jim, how do you make a plant pant? Force them--to run? Sorry, couldn't resist. Some people are easily distracted. The wiki is a great resource, but it isn't perfect, and it never will be--as soon as one thing is done, someone wants something more. Such is life. Not to rub it in, but to emphasize how different apparently similar Zone numbers can be, here on the west coast USA, my garden is (by Zone number) at least somewhat similar to Jim McKenney's, and we are apparently having spring. Crocus, daffodils, snowdrops blooming. Asiatic lilies are showing "noses" above ground. Hyacinths up, but not yet starting to send up flower spikes. Found some grape hyacinths almost open yesterday while pruning a Buddleia. There are more than a dozen rhododendrons blooming--mostly "lepidotes" like PJM, although a neighbor has what I assume is "Christmas Cheer" starting. I'm starting to plant seed, trying to figure out where I'm going to move various plants. So far, less rain this winter than usual--apparently it all went to California, causing flooding and mudslides, etc. Ken