Pacific Rim wrote: > Careful. Diana is the most scrupulous grower I have encountered in my own > life as a grower. > Agreed!! I was just comparing Diana's listing to Jane's much more conservative rating. Maybe it is even hardier--Brent and Becky list it as Z3-9, growable (or at least winter hardy) in every state of the lower 48. I personally have never grown tuolumnense, but 'Pagoda' is fine here, but reputed to be easier to grow. Any Zone 3 or 4 (with unreliable snow) growers out there? Nobody has mentioned E. grandiflorum as a worthy westerner. It has been fine here for a few seasons in a generic shady perennial bed, nothing special. Not really showy, but it is cute. Any other fans? --Roy