Thank you Jane, a very helpful reply if just a little depressing over time lines 'till flowering. Oh well, ho hum, two thirds still to go 'till then. At least the climate here will suit it even if I am rather greyer by then, if that's possible but definetly wobblier and wrinklier. Iain ----- Original Message ----- From: <pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org> To: <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 1:37 AM Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 65, Issue 29 > Send pbs mailing list submissions to > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > pbs-owner@lists.ibiblio.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of pbs digest..." > > > List-Post:<mailto:pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> > List-Archive:<http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist/> > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Bulb requirements - was Ixiolirion (Jane McGary) > 2. bulbs and their requirements. (Adam Fikso) > 3. Re: Lime in pottimg mix - was Bulb requirements - was > Ixiolirion (Mark Mazer) > 4. Re: Ixiolirion & Xerophyllum tenax (Iain Brodie of Falsyde) > 5. Re: Ixiolirion & Xerophyllum tenax (Jane McGary) > 6. Re: Ixiolirion & lime (James Waddick) > 7. Lilium michiganense - variants (James Waddick) > 8. Trillium undulatum: NOT! (totototo@telus.net) > 9. Re: bulbs and their requirements. (Lee Poulsen) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 11:28:42 -0700 > From: Jane McGary <janemcgary@earthlink.net> > Subject: Re: [pbs] Bulb requirements - was Ixiolirion > To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> > Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20080626111756.0173e4b0@pop.earthlink.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > Several interesting topics have come up here. First, good to hear from > Yuri > Pirogov near Moscow, who observes that his collected Ixiolirion have done > better in his severe-winter climate than have Dutch imports of the same > species. This should encourage us to try to obtain wild-collected seed of > I. tataricum (I think there is at least one other species?) and try > raising > it ourselves. > > Second, Jim McKenney wrote that he believes his native soil, acid clay, is > not good for many bulbs. In fact being lodged in damp clay in summer might > be bad for them, but I don't think acidity itself would be a problem for > most species. I grow hundreds of bulbous species that come from areas with > alkaline soil, and I grow them in a slightly acidic but very well drained > medium. I've rarely bothered to add lime to my growing mix. A very good > gardener once told me that he thought almost no plant requires lime as > long > as it is provided with enough fertilizer, although, on the other hand, > some > plants (including many ericaceous ones) don't grow well in an alkaline > soil. There is widespread thought that plants endemic to ultramafic > (serpentine) soils do not require serpentine, either, and certainly I grow > a number of serpentine endemics without making any adjustment to the soil; > the theory is that these plants tolerate, but do not require, an > ultramafic > substrate, and benefit from the lack of competition where plants that > can't > tolerate it are excluded. > > Moreover, when you visit limestone ranges, especially in the far North, > you'll see many ericaceous plants and other "lime-haters" growing in > organic deposits over the limestone. > > Older books on growing alpines, especially, offer numerous recipes for > potting mixes, with elaborate lists of the particular plants to be grown > in > each, but not many of us follow these rules nowadays. I do have a peat bed > in the rock garden, but it's primarily for moisture retention in summer, > and in it several terrestrial orchids usually seen in limestone areas are > flourisihing. > > Jane McGary > Northwestern Oregon, USA > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 12:39:40 -0500 > From: "Adam Fikso" <adam14113@ameritech.net> > Subject: [pbs] bulbs and their requirements. > To: <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> > Message-ID: <000b01c8d6f2$34fb4010$eae38f47@FAMILY> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; > reply-type=original > > I find that it's always worthwhile finding out where the bulbs originate. > If it's appropriately named like Ixiolirion tataricum, the species > epithet > by itself is a clue. It's a Tatar, a steppe bulb, in all likelihood. > Yeah, > dry summers, and minimal rains, and lousy soil, and good drainage and > maybe > cold winters--really cold, and lots of limestone in the soil, and sharp > drainage, (either that and a sloping clay or terra rossa base where the > water drains off before it soaks in very much..) > > Of course this doesn't work for Scilla peruviana!--but we've been over > that > more than once. > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 14:30:25 -0500 (GMT-05:00) > From: Mark Mazer <markmazerandfm13@earthlink.net> > Subject: Re: [pbs] Lime in pottimg mix - was Bulb requirements - was > Ixiolirion > To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> > Message-ID: > <26185178.1214422225321.JavaMail.root@elwamui-chisos.atl.sa.earthlink.net> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > >>I grow hundreds of bulbous species that come from areas with >>alkaline soil, and I grow them in a slightly acidic but very well drained >>medium. I've rarely bothered to add lime to my growing mix. > > I am now adding small amounts of lime to all potting mixes. I think that > the warmer and higher humidity of North Carolina makes this necessary in > contrast to the cooler and dryer growing conditions previously encountered > in Connecticut. From temperate to tropical, add more lime to the mix. > > Mark Mazer > Hertford, North Carolina > USDA Zone 7b-8 > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 21:12:15 +0100 > From: "Iain Brodie of Falsyde" <auchgourishgardens@falsyde.sol.co.uk> > Subject: Re: [pbs] Ixiolirion & Xerophyllum tenax > To: <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> > Message-ID: <024101c8d6ff$c386e020$0401a8c0@homepc> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > IXIOLIRION. I don't how much, if at all, the following will be of help or > interest but we grow Ixiolirion here and have doen so on the same piece of > ground for nine years. There simply is not the labour to go around a ten > acres botanic garden to allow or consider moving or lifting bulbs etc on > an > annual basis. They either get on with it themsleves, or not. it isn't > possible to moly coddle anything here. Essentially I suspect the over > riding > significance attached to their survival and natural expansion, [slowly] is > the fact that [a] the grow on a soil which to all intents and purposes is > pure sand and gravel, as is the case all over the site, and [b] the > precise > location has an approxiamte slope of 45 degrees. Therefore good drainage > is > an absolute given and may well be the most important element in their > survival. > > That said we also get around 75 inches, in old money, of rain which is > spread more or else evenly over the whole year, either as snow or the wet > stuff. If the soil is porous to say 30-45 cms / 12-18 inches on top of > glaciated granite gravel and rock as well as the added benefit of some > sort > of slope then I see no reason why this species should not grow unless the > summer temperatures are aggressively high but by then they are more or > less > dormant. We are lucky to see much above 20C at any time and the crude > equivalent to the USDA's hardiness zone @ c. 58 degrees north here would > be > roughly 6 'ish. I hope this helps, & I would sugggest the person who > thought he might be over watering during summer & autumn is on the button > there. > > On a different topic, could I ask for some advice on a plant I have here > grown from seed donated from your neck of the woods, namely Xerophyllum > tenax. We now have some 35 plus plants three years old from seed but this > is not a species anyone in Scotland, or it seems in England knows anything > about in terms of its cultivation requirments. The plants are now roughly > around 15 cms / 6 inches tall. The basic pH is 4.5 to perhaps 5.0 max, the > soil is as described above, ditto climate. What do I do next please? It > seems hardy having already dealt with - 18 C so far including doing so in > 9 > cm square pots since pricked out as seedlings. > > Iain > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org> > To: <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> > Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 6:21 PM > Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 65, Issue 28 > > >> Send pbs mailing list submissions to >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> pbs-owner@lists.ibiblio.org >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of pbs digest..." >> >> >> List-Post:<mailto:pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> >> List-Archive:<http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist/> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Re: Ixiolirion (Jim McKenney) >> 2. Re: Ixiolirion (Yuri Pirogov) >> 3. Re: Bulb requirements - was Ixiolirion (Diane Whitehead) >> 4. Hippeastrum parodii (Douglas Westfall) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 12:17:50 -0400 >> From: "Jim McKenney" <jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com> >> Subject: Re: [pbs] Ixiolirion >> To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> >> Message-ID: <000601c8d6df$080e11d0$2f01a8c0@Library> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" >> >> It?s always intriguing to me to hear other gardeners explain their >> successes >> and failures. Most of us have one or two major circumstances which >> greatly >> influence the bulbs we grow. For me, that major circumstance is too much >> water during the period when summer dormant bulbs are ripening. When I >> was >> a >> young gardener, I thought the major circumstance was winter hardiness. >> One >> other circumstance for me is acid clay soil: it?s obvious that many bulbs >> originate in areas with porous, high calcium soils, usually neutral or >> alkaline. >> >> >> >> As a result, when I try to explain my successes and failures, my >> explanations are apt to be in terms of those three main issues: excess >> moisture when the bulbs are ripening, winter hardiness and soil. >> >> >> >> For me, one of the real eye-openers which came with participation in this >> forum is a new sense of the adaptability of most bulbs: many of the bulbs >> I >> grow can withstand conditions never realized in my garden. >> >> >> >> One thing this has taught me is this: take with a generous grain of salt >> reports based on experience in climates different than my own. And with >> that >> in mind, I try to preface any suggestions I might make with a caveat >> about >> ?under my conditions? or something similar. For instance, Mary Sue has >> Brodiaea, Triteleia, Dichelostemma and the like probably coming up in her >> grass (do you have any grass, Mary Sue?). Yet she has problems with >> Ixiolirion. I on the other hand am just able to squeek by with many of >> the >> Californian plants, and for me they seem to respond best to the sort of >> conditions I suspect Ixiolirion needs in my climate. It should surprise >> no >> one that what works for me does not work for Mary Sue and visa versa: >> after >> all, we?re in different worlds in terms of growing conditions. I >> mentioned >> the uncertainty of Allium caeruleum in the garden in my climate, yet for >> Jane McGary it?s a reliable garden plant. I have to jump through hoops to >> keep it going (hoops in this case being protection from summer rain). >> >> >> >> Reflecting on reports from other parts of the country often leads me to >> speculation about the requirements of various plants. In particular, >> there >> are circumstances each of us has, circumstances which influence our >> successes and failures, yet circumstances we might not even realize. Soil >> temperature is one I?m trying to focus on more and more now. Some plants >> require high soil temperatures during dormancy: these are the ones which >> are >> apt to be poor performers in cool summer areas. Others have certain chill >> requirements. It?s interesting to me that horticulture and agriculture in >> general seem to have recognized the importance of temperature during >> winter >> dormancy long before the significance of temperature during summer >> dormancy >> was recognized. >> >> >> >> Another neglected factor is day length. Martagon lilies are evidently >> adapted to very long days during their period of above-ground growth. The >> gross observation is that they flourish better far north of Maryland. >> From >> that, most observers have concluded that they are cold adapted. But >> perhaps >> the explanation for their halting growth here in Maryland has to do with >> our >> comparatively short late-spring, early-summer days (compared, for >> instance, >> to the day length in Sweden or comparable latitudes in Canada where >> martagon >> lilies thrive). The day length here begins to shorten after the spring >> solstice; but if you go far enough north, days longer than any we ever >> experience characterize the summers. >> >> >> >> Another thing I?m beginning to wonder about is this: will summer dormant >> bulbs which have ripened properly and experienced the proper desiccation >> withstand soil moisture in the period between proper ripening and >> initiation >> of autumnal root growth? Bulbs when dug here are seeming heavy with >> moisture. During the first week or two of storage, it?s important for the >> storage conditions to allow free evaporation of moisture. Fat juicy >> summer >> dormant bulbs taken from the ground and put directly into zip lock bags >> are >> apt to turn into a stinking mushy soup before you know it. But once >> stored >> under airy conditions and properly ripened, are they more tolerant of >> moist >> warm conditions? That?s something I mean to find out. And has anyone >> noticed >> that the largest bulbs of tulips are the ones most likely to rot? >> >> >> >> I?ve wandered far from the Ixiolirion issue, and have not mentioned one >> of >> the cardinal rules I try to observe when puzzling out why things die: >> make >> a >> point of determining exactly when the plant in question died. If we plant >> a >> bulb in the autumn, see it bloom in the spring, and then don?t think >> about >> it until it does not reappear the following year, that leaves a lot of >> time >> and changing circumstances unaccounted for. >> >> >> >> The hypothesis I?m proposing is that Ixiolirion is dying in June: it >> would >> not surprise me to find that the bulbs are rotting as the plants bloom. I >> dug some from my garden (in the garden, not in a raised or protected bed) >> a >> few weeks ago and found some rotters (and some sound bulbs). Next year >> they >> are going into a raised bed under cover. And I think Mary Sue is on to >> something with her speculation about a need for winter cold. Some bulbs >> stored dry and cool during the winter here grew when planted in the >> spring >> but gave a very poor harvest. >> >> >> >> Jim McKenney >> >> jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com >> >> Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871? North, 77.09829? West, USDA >> zone >> 7 >> >> My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com/ >> >> BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ >> >> >> >> Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS >> >> Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org/ >> >> >> >> Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org/ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 20:34:45 +0400 >> From: "Yuri Pirogov" <jukp@aha.ru> >> Subject: Re: [pbs] Ixiolirion >> To: "Pacific Bulb Society" <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> >> Message-ID: <004e01c8d6e1$61b1d850$0401a8c0@LocalHost> >> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; >> reply-type=original >> >> Dutch grown Ixiolirion have bad reputation here too. So I did not expect >> too >> much when I collected them among other things in Central Asia two years >> ago. >> Nevertheless, it is still alive after two winters and it gave me good >> blooms >> this spring. Interesting, two clones have very different bloom time. >> First >> one bloomed in late May, second one bloomed after mid June when first one >> has almost ripe seeds. I must say, the past summer was very hot and dry. >> I'm not sure it needs good drainage because it is very widespread in the >> nature and is really a weed on the plains and fields. >> >> Yuri Pirogov >> near Moscow, Russia >> zone 3 or 4 >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 3 >> Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 09:59:44 -0700 >> From: Diane Whitehead <voltaire@islandnet.com> >> Subject: Re: [pbs] Bulb requirements - was Ixiolirion >> To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> >> Message-ID: <DF49C614-CEB3-45C9-996E-51B561F0EC09@islandnet.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed; >> delsp=yes >> >> Jim McKenney's message of June 25 is a wide-ranging discussion of bulb >> requirements in different areas. >> >> I think it may be missed by anyone skipping the Ixiolirion messages, >> so I would like to draw attention to it. >> I have included just a few snippets, but the whole message is well >> worth reading. >> >> Diane Whitehead >> >> >> On 25-Jun-08, at 9:17 AM, Jim McKenney wrote: >> >>> It?s always intriguing to me to hear other gardeners explain their >>> successes >>> and failures. Most of us have one or two major circumstances which >>> greatly >>> influence the bulbs we grow. >>> >> .......... >>> >>> One thing this has taught me is this: take with a generous grain of >>> salt >>> reports based on experience in climates different than my own. >> ........ >>> >>> ... each of us has circumstances which influence our >>> successes and failures, yet circumstances we might not even realize. >>> Soil >>> temperature is one ......... >>> >>> Another neglected factor is day length. ....... >> >>> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 4 >> Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 10:01:33 -0700 >> From: Douglas Westfall <eagle85@flash.net> >> Subject: [pbs] Hippeastrum parodii >> To: IBSMEMBERS@yahoogroups.com, Pacific Bulb Society >> <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> >> Message-ID: <BF554C79-85B4-4CA4-B857-B1CF10BAF1A1@flash.net> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes >> >> Question to Hippeastrum "specialists" (at least any who grow >> Hippeastrum parodii). >> >> At this point in the season, all of my Hippeastrums have finished >> blooming (except Hippeastrum parodii). >> >> Now I know that H. aulicum blooms in late Winter/early Spring, but is >> it "normal" for Hippeastrum parodii to be sending up a flower spike >> here in late June? I have never had it bloom before. >> >> Doug >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> >> >> End of pbs Digest, Vol 65, Issue 28 >> *********************************** > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 16:23:02 -0700 > From: Jane McGary <janemcgary@earthlink.net> > Subject: Re: [pbs] Ixiolirion & Xerophyllum tenax > To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> > Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20080626161737.0173d4b0@pop.earthlink.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > Iain asked about Xerophyllum tenax, commonly known as "beargrass." Though > not a bulbous plant and not a geophyte, it is often discussed along with > the bulbous monocots. > > This plant is widespread in the American West, usually growing above the > winter snow line in conifer woodland and clearings. It tolerates some > shade > but flowers best after the tree cover is removed by fire, logging, or > windstorms. It is very slow-growing from seed and might take as long as 12 > years to flower. It grows in rocky soils of mostly volcanic origin where > there is very good drainage. It is usually wet in fall, snow-covered in > winter, wet in spring, and very dry in summer. It is rarely seen in > gardens, even in my area where it is indigenous at higher elevations. > > Some populations of Xerophyllum are threatened by the collection of the > foliage for the florist industry, for which it is shipped worldwide. > > Jane McGary > Northwestern Oregon, USA > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 18:29:30 -0500 > From: James Waddick <jwaddick@kc.rr.com> > Subject: Re: [pbs] Ixiolirion & lime > To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> > Message-ID: <p062408b7c48883c413e1@[192.168.1.101]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" > > Dear all, > I find all the pros and cons of bulb needs very interesting, > but like Adam give high credence to provenance or where the bulb > originated. Ixiolirion is a plant of Central Asian steppes and would > seem tailor made for my growing conditions in the Central American > Steppes (U.S. Prairie) . Cold winter, low to moderate rainfall, high > temps in summer. limestone soils etc etc. > Perhaps the bulbs genetic transposition through Dutch care > has made them less agreeable to quasi-native treatments. > > And perhaps my best bet would be grow them from seed > collected in the wild from a habitat more similar to mine than the > Dutch bulb fields. > > And this relates to the subject of lime. I know, I know, I > know that prepared soil and soilless mixes are pH adjusted to be > neutral (ph 7.0) or nearly so, but (I think) I see better growth when > I add a seasoning of pulverized lime/ limestone to each pot and some > get a larger helping like peonies and hellebores. > > Call me crazy to add lime where the water pH is almost 11 > (yes, true), but it does seem to help. > > Best Jim W. > -- > Dr. James W. Waddick > 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. > Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 > USA > Ph. 816-746-1949 > Zone 5 Record low -23F > Summer 100F + > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 18:49:16 -0500 > From: James Waddick <jwaddick@kc.rr.com> > Subject: [pbs] Lilium michiganense - variants > To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> > Message-ID: <p062408b9c4888560748f@[192.168.1.101]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" > > Dear Friends and esp. Iain, > Within the next two days I expect to have 50 plus stems of > Lilium michiganense in bloom. Most stems are 3 ft tall with a single > bloom, but a few are up to 5 ft tall with up to 5 flowers per stem. > The run around my half-shade garden and are an architectural delight > even out of bloom- The whorls of foliage seem impossibly elegant at > times. The brilliant orange turks-cap flowers add a jewel-like touch > to the picture. > > So the literature says there are populations that have bright > yellow flowers, and others closer to red flowers, A friend from the > American Lily Society has verified that tetraploids exist and so do > other color combinations (green throat, spotted etc.) > > Since this is so 'happy' in my garden, I'm ready to plant > other color forms near by. Can anyone suggest a source for any of > these? At least the red or yellow forms? Do they come true from seed? > and is there a seed source anywhere? > > Ready to expand! > > Thanks Jim W. > -- > Dr. James W. Waddick > 8871 NW Brostrom Rd. > Kansas City Missouri 64152-2711 > USA > Ph. 816-746-1949 > Zone 5 Record low -23F > Summer 100F + > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 17:17:35 -0700 > From: totototo@telus.net > Subject: [pbs] Trillium undulatum: NOT! > To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> > Message-ID: <20080626001710.6236URNT1X@priv-edtnaa06.telusplanet.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > Among the bagged bulbs on rack this spring were packages labelled > "Trillium > undulatum." No such luck! They key out as T. recurvatum, using the key in > the > Cases' book. T. recurvatum is a fairly ugly trillium, as it happens. > > Another example of the folly of believing the label on the package. > > > > > -- > Rodger Whitlock > Victoria, British Columbia, Canada > Maritime Zone 8, a cool Mediterranean climate > > on beautiful Vancouver Island > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 17:36:35 -0700 > From: Lee Poulsen <wpoulsen@pacbell.net> > Subject: Re: [pbs] bulbs and their requirements. > To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> > Message-ID: <4862E493.1000503@pacbell.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > > > James Waddick wrote: >> Dear all, >> I find all the pros and cons of bulb needs very interesting, >> but like Adam give high credence to provenance or where the bulb >> originated. Ixiolirion is a plant of Central Asian steppes and would >> seem tailor made for my growing conditions in the Central American >> Steppes (U.S. Prairie) . Cold winter, low to moderate rainfall, high >> temps in summer. limestone soils etc etc. >> Perhaps the bulbs genetic transposition through Dutch care >> has made them less agreeable to quasi-native treatments. >> >> > Harold Koopowitz once told me very nearly this same thing about some of > the bulb types that have gone through centuries, even, of Dutch > treatment and selection to what they are today. I dimly recall that he > was referring to tulips and hyacinths especially, since hyacinths > originally were mediterranean climate plants, but most of the Dutch > cultivars don't do well at all in our area (Southern California). And > that had the Dutch not chosen results of all their tulip breeding that > only did well in their climate over the centuries, but instead tried > crossing and growing out all sorts of hybrids regardless of their > adaptability to the Dutch climate, we might today have some spectacular > tulip cultivars that would grow well and naturalize here in California > rather than needing to be grown like annuals and be pre-chilled in the > refrigerator, etc. > > --Lee Poulsen > Pasadena, California, USDA Zone 10a > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > End of pbs Digest, Vol 65, Issue 29 > ***********************************