I have 2 small groups of Leucojum vernum, maybe 8-10 or so bulbs in each, just 6 feet apart. The oldest group maybe 6-9 inches from a now large polystichium setiferum divisilobum, has increased from 3 or 4 original bulbs but now is part shaded by the fern, and kept relatively dry. It has only 2 flowers this year. The newer clump, starting from a similar number of bulbs, is at the base of a now dead flowering cherry, in good light, but has 9 flowers and is much more vigorous, even though it is competing with cyclamen, eranthis, pulmonaria etc. The natural soil is dry well drained and chalky and they get little artificial watering. I plan to move the original group soon before it fails alltogether. I have never noticed any seed in previous years when they were both flowering. Brian Whyer, Buckinghamshire, England, zone ~8 Diane Whitehead <voltaire@islandnet.com> wrote: John Grimshaw wrote: Here at Colesbourne Leucojum vernum flourishes in shallow dry soil under deciduous and coniferous trees where the soil dries out completely in summer ========================== John, Do you think these plants have seeded themselves under the trees and only the ones that could thrive in dry conditions remain? Or perhaps they were originally planted there and watered heavily to become established? Or have their bulbs pulled themselves down really deep? (though you say the soil is shallow, so that can't be the answer.) I would like to be able to grow them. In addition to their visual appeal, they are beautifully scented. Diane Whitehead Victoria, British Columbia, Canada maritime zone 8, cool Mediterranean climate mild rainy winters, mild dry summers