The Massonia echinata under discussion are presumably winter-growing. Does anyone have the diminutive, high altitude one from the Drakensberg, which may or may not be M. echinata? I have only seen it at 3000 m (10,000') in the gravel at the top of Ben MacDhui (the highest point of South Africa on the Eastern Cape border with Lesotho). The whole plant is no more than about 5 cm (2 in) across (and that's a large one). John Grimshaw Dr John M. Grimshaw Sycamore Cottage Colesbourne Nr Cheltenham Gloucestershire GL53 9NP