Diana et al, I have been away for a week and haven't gotten a chance to read all the posts (and I actually started from the end and started to work my way up to the first). But I wanted to make a few comments of my experience with Allium, specifically tuberosum. WEEEEEEEDDDDDD. Diana, do you dead-head you plants? If you were to leave them, you would soon discover 12000 seedlings not 12. I have maybe 6 plants/clumps in Ohio next to regular chives. And it is hard to tell exact proportions to parents but, the majority of seedlings are surrounding the grouping of garlic chives. My other experiences of Allium are: aflatuense - mine go dormant just as the flowers are reaching peak of bloom. They have never reseeded that I am aware. They are growing in mostly heavy clay with some bone and or blood meal mixed in at planting time with some organic material. I have added more bulbs over the years to make up for those that been sliced and diced while planting later in the year. None of the bulbs have split or grown too noticebly larger. Of well. I might add some of the larger flowering "globemaster"-type into the area to add some variety. schubertii - LOVE IT! I love to have drama in my garden and this is it. The effect reminds me of a star that starts to explode from the inside and works it way outward. I have never removed the seed head until it is completely dry in the fall. Then I dance a little jig around that garden hoping to spread more seed around. I have yet to see any fruits from my dancing (except a little weight loss in the heat, which I can easily gain back by dinner time LOL). The original plant that I placed in the garden 3 years ago has vanished. I don't know if it because of the overbearing daylilies right behind or if it was damaged by the sprinkler system installers. In any event, I will continue to add more of them over the years in various locations until I get it right. I added 10 more bulbs in the fall of 2001 and only one did not come up. THe flowering was a little disappointing as they were not as large and full as the original one but, I can wait. christophii-I have a little less fondness for this plant but it may be my cultural practices more than supplier. The bulbs are in a mounded bed but they are on the top center and some settling has occured there and a slight depression that holds water is inconveniently they are located. Out of 10 bulbs planted, only 5 emerged and if memory serves me right, only one attempted a flower and then was mostly aborted. I would love to know what the appropriate location for these would be. I have a wide range of soils, moisture, and exposures to choose from. I do have a plant that came only labeled as curly allium. I love the leaves but I have never seen flwoers on it. It has only slightly increased over the years. I would love to put a nae on this plant. I have been looking at other alliums over the years but have never made the jump. I wanted to get one of those smaller ones that will "naturalize" and make a nice carpet but not become a weed. I have also thought of A. krave.... with the large greyish leaves and white flowers. Well, that is my experiences with alliums. And if "Allium King" <grin> and anyone else could make further suggestions for a z5 climate with hot summers and cold winters, I am open to anything. The newest addition ot the garden will be worked on this spring and it is a large clay patch directly off the back (southern exposure) patio and will get full sun all day long. This is also near to where the aflatuense are located. John Ingram jjingram@adelphia.net Floralartistry2000@yahoo.com http://groups.yahoo.com/group/… http://www.floralartistry.org/ http://photos.yahoo.com/floralartistry2000/