Seed germination/damping off/Cinnamon

[David Pilling]

Here in the UK, I use whatever the largest DIY chain (B&Q diy.com) sells - previously they were secretive about what was in their compost, but now they say "coir, wood fibre, bark and green compost".

It has been a very wet year, the 24 bags of compost were thoroughly wet when they arrived in March and they then stood outside in the wet for many weeks. Upon use the wettest did smell like it was rotting. However the plants have survived and the compost has not dissolved.

As to bracken, happy memories of when they used to set the fells on fire to clear it. I've not seen that for a long time.

[MarkMazer]

CG100 wrote:
" Without seeing it, I am unsure what milled sphagnum might be, but it isn't something that I have ever knowingly seen in the UK, and as it would require damage to habitat to harvest.........."

Actually, much of the horticultural sphagnum moss available in the USA is a renewable resource growing back in the same bogs every 5-7 years and it's production is regulated in many regions like New Zealand and Canada. There is also a movement to establish "sphagnum farms" in some areas.

Mark Mazer
Hertford, NC
USA

[CG100]

I can't see that "harvesting" anything from a bog would ever be legal in the Uk, or Europe in all probability.

If anything is taken off the top - live sphagnum, it is not adding to the peat deposit. How fast peat builds up depends hugely on so many factors, but this year's growth will make around 1mm of peat.

There are very famous photo's of at least one steel post that was sunk in the UK Fenlands - essentially peat soils - that were drained and farmed, nothing but crops removed. I can't find any of the pic's currently that have any useful information attached, such as dates, but over maybe 100 years, the soil level sunk 8 feet or so.

Over a great deal of Fenland, rivers are now a long way above the level of the surrounding land, simply because the land has shrunk as it has dried and not been replenished from the rushes, sedges and mosses that were there originally when it was a real fen. (A fen is a more or less local E Anglian word for marsh/bog, of which tiny pieces are left in something approaching original natural state -  The Fens - Wikipedia. The first people to start draining the area were the Romans, so 2000 years ago - the Norfolk Broads are much more recent peat workings, drainage channels and actual rivers.)

[MarkMazer]

https://fensforthefuture.org.uk/creating-the-future/wetland-crop-sphagnum-moss

Mark Mazer
Hertford, NC
USA

[CG100]

Farmers are in business. They are looking to make money, a living. They will go for what makes financial sense.

Profit levels from farming sphagnum? It is very light........................ and has (very) niche markets.

The Fens are also the vegetable basket of the UK - carrots, leaks, parsnips, brassicas et al may not sell for huge sums per tonne, but there are a lot of tonnes per acre (something like 15 tonnes) and at least one crop per year. Pretty much everyone eats veg', every day, very few people keep amphibians that prefer moss as litter in the vivarium.

[David Pilling]

The article makes a case for farming moss - people with ideas can always make a case, may not come to pass.

Yesterday the TV was on about someone who grows flowers to make wedding confetti, and I was thinking people can always find land for doing things.

During the war, when food crops were high priority, they were growing Linum for fibre.

Growing moss the idea seems to be that it would be something that did less damage to some areas and there is a market - given the move away from peat for plants, that market might be a lot smaller than now.

Yay for 'propagules', I'll have to examine the stuff coming off my roof. Everyday, birds bring another crop down to earth. Maybe I could train them to containerise it - like people do with crows and rubbish.

[MarkMazer]

CG100 wrote:   and has (very) niche markets.

We find sphagnum moss indispensable for sowing and/or growing many genera of carnivorous plants.

Mark Mazer
Hertford, NC
USA

[CG100]

I have a few Sarracenias which are in peat and I have enough peat to last quite a while, especially if diluted with sand and perlite. I have grown a few from seed too - I just used peat (and some slow release fertiliser - the old wive's tale about killing them is just that - an old wive's tale, which is no surprise to me at all).

I have no idea what the smaller than minute UK carnivorous plant nursery trade will use in the future. Possibly something totally inert? Just a support rather than a conventional compost? Should work so long as it has no free alkali in it.

Whatever, there'll be no commercially available sphagnum (peat) here very soon.

[MarkMazer]

CG!)) wrote:
"here'll be no commercially available sphagnum (peat) here very soon."

With 30+ colorful Sphagnum moss species in the UK, what is a non scofflaw moss gardener to do? Where does UK peated whisky come from?

Mark Mazer
Hertford, NC
USA

[David Pilling]

Where does UK peated whisky come from?

https://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbsforum/index.php?msg=1901

"Whisky makers are turning their backs on peat"

"scofflaw" is a good word. We need a barrack room lawyer to tell us if peat is banned, or merely extracting peat from bogs.

[CG100]

In the UK, banning the use/posession of anything is generally something that happens some time (years) after banning supply/sale, if it ever follows at all.

This is a little over a year old - treat %s with a degree of caution - they vary a great deal depending on who is telling the story, perhaps/probably reflecting the massive decline in retail sales of peat-based composts as they simply aren't available, reflected in quickly changing data.

UK Government confirms ban on all peat-based gardening products will not be implemented until 2030 | The Wildlife Trusts

It has been difficult to find peat-based compost in any UK retail outlet for maybe 2 years and I can't recall the last time that I saw baled peat for sale.

[MarkMazer]

Not that we do it anymore, but we always used long fiber sphagnum moss when air layering woodies.

Mark Mazer
Hertford, NC
USA

[CG100]

The only time that I have ever seen actual moss for sale, that I have noticed, has been each spring when it is used as the traditional liner for hanging baskets and is just as collected.

Probably a great deal is collected illegally as the numpties who collect it just assume that anything but an obvious crop is free for anyone to help themselves to. It probably still happens, but it used to be quite frequent that various land-owners and conservation organisations tried to take people to court for theft (of moss), I just haven't heard or read about it recently. It can be quite a business and large areas can be stripped of moss that might take umpteen years to recover, and make somebody a lot of money.

The same thing happens with leafmould taken from woodlands.

The suggestion to use moss as the rooting medium for air-layering is very common in books here, or was.

[David Pilling]

Yes moss for hanging baskets - interesting points. Orchid growers use moss - must have their sources.

Meanwhile my neighbour had yet another pleasant afternoon sweeping up the moss from my roof which had landed on his side of the wall - can I prosecute him - theft? illegal moss gathering? Law of the suburbs about neighbours plants, he should chuck it back...

[CG100]

Meanwhile my neighbour had yet another pleasant afternoon sweeping up the moss from my roof which had landed on his side of the wall - can I prosecute him - theft?

The moss is yours.
Strictly legally, he should offer it to you before doing anything with it.